KPMG - “unconscious bias a load of crap”
Discussion
U.K. chair of KPMG put his foot in his mouth this week claiming in a staff call that unconscious bias “complete and utter crap for years”.
Not sure I agree with that statement but he then went on to say that after all the training nothing was done or nothing improved. I fully support that second part. Such trainings are a farce. Typical tick box exercises to show that firms like KPMG take it seriously whilst actually doing nothing.
Of course the real issue is that there is rampant conscious bias at work at KPMG and the other accountancy firms.
When I worked for one the largest US multinationals I went to a senior management induction course in the US. Looking round the room about 90% were men and 95% were white.
I suspect if you check the profiles of KPMG’s U.K. partners it would be better, but certainly not representative of the U.K. population as a whole.
Not sure I agree with that statement but he then went on to say that after all the training nothing was done or nothing improved. I fully support that second part. Such trainings are a farce. Typical tick box exercises to show that firms like KPMG take it seriously whilst actually doing nothing.
Of course the real issue is that there is rampant conscious bias at work at KPMG and the other accountancy firms.
When I worked for one the largest US multinationals I went to a senior management induction course in the US. Looking round the room about 90% were men and 95% were white.
I suspect if you check the profiles of KPMG’s U.K. partners it would be better, but certainly not representative of the U.K. population as a whole.
Esceptico said:
U.K. chair of KPMG put his foot in his mouth this week claiming in a staff call that unconscious bias “complete and utter crap for years”.
Not sure I agree with that statement but he then went on to say that after all the training nothing was done or nothing improved. I fully support that second part. Such trainings are a farce. Typical tick box exercises to show that firms like KPMG take it seriously whilst actually doing nothing.
Of course the real issue is that there is rampant conscious bias at work at KPMG and the other accountancy firms.
When I worked for one the largest US multinationals I went to a senior management induction course in the US. Looking round the room about 90% were men and 95% were white.
I suspect if you check the profiles of KPMG’s U.K. partners it would be better, but certainly not representative of the U.K. population as a whole.
When was that?Not sure I agree with that statement but he then went on to say that after all the training nothing was done or nothing improved. I fully support that second part. Such trainings are a farce. Typical tick box exercises to show that firms like KPMG take it seriously whilst actually doing nothing.
Of course the real issue is that there is rampant conscious bias at work at KPMG and the other accountancy firms.
When I worked for one the largest US multinationals I went to a senior management induction course in the US. Looking round the room about 90% were men and 95% were white.
I suspect if you check the profiles of KPMG’s U.K. partners it would be better, but certainly not representative of the U.K. population as a whole.
Yeah this one is a tricky one. Being a money-hungry Big Four you'd think they'd throw bias out the window if it kept them from making a dollar. "Sorry Alistair Alumni-Oldboy but Sally Snake pulls in more billable time from her teams than you.....Bob the Bouncer will escort you to your locker so you can retrieve your personal belongings on your way out the door..." They must be less ruthless than I imagine!
rodericb said:
Yeah this one is a tricky one. Being a money-hungry Big Four you'd think they'd throw bias out the window if it kept them from making a dollar. "Sorry Alistair Alumni-Oldboy but Sally Snake pulls in more billable time from her teams than you.....Bob the Bouncer will escort you to your locker so you can retrieve your personal belongings on your way out the door..." They must be less ruthless than I imagine!
If you have ever worked for a big 4 you would know that their marketing bluster about how wonderful they are is just that, bluster. Staggers me sometimes how inefficient they are and how the business model hasn’t changed materially since I first experienced the industry in the early 90s.Of course money talks and you can get promoted for bringing in business but in most service lines you have to have luck and the right internal connections.
GT03ROB said:
He's probably right but you can't go around saying it!
That is the problem and why I can’t take another day in the corporate environment. People forced to stay stuff they don’t mean to an audience who knows that they don’t believe what is being said. Yet everyone too scared for their positions to admit it openly. Esceptico said:
GT03ROB said:
He's probably right but you can't go around saying it!
That is the problem and why I can’t take another day in the corporate environment. People forced to stay stuff they don’t mean to an audience who knows that they don’t believe what is being said. Yet everyone too scared for their positions to admit it openly. You can see why it’s still a problem though. Even on this thread so far we have
It’s not an issue
It’s a good thing
It’s an issue but the training’s wrong
In my industry (aviation) we were looking at these things years ago as part of CRM and decision making as it helped reduce accidents and incidents.
We still had old blokes sitting there in training courses saying it wasn’t real or a problem and if people just did their job, we wouldn’t need to talk about it etc
As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them. Seems like other industries have a way to go yet.
It’s not an issue
It’s a good thing
It’s an issue but the training’s wrong
In my industry (aviation) we were looking at these things years ago as part of CRM and decision making as it helped reduce accidents and incidents.
We still had old blokes sitting there in training courses saying it wasn’t real or a problem and if people just did their job, we wouldn’t need to talk about it etc
As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them. Seems like other industries have a way to go yet.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 12th February 08:22
Digger said:
Esceptico said:
U.K. chair of KPMG put his foot in his mouth this week claiming in a staff call that unconscious bias “complete and utter crap for years”.
Not sure I agree with that statement but he then went on to say that after all the training nothing was done or nothing improved. I fully support that second part. Such trainings are a farce. Typical tick box exercises to show that firms like KPMG take it seriously whilst actually doing nothing.
Of course the real issue is that there is rampant conscious bias at work at KPMG and the other accountancy firms.
When I worked for one the largest US multinationals I went to a senior management induction course in the US. Looking round the room about 90% were men and 95% were white.
I suspect if you check the profiles of KPMG’s U.K. partners it would be better, but certainly not representative of the U.K. population as a whole.
When was that?Not sure I agree with that statement but he then went on to say that after all the training nothing was done or nothing improved. I fully support that second part. Such trainings are a farce. Typical tick box exercises to show that firms like KPMG take it seriously whilst actually doing nothing.
Of course the real issue is that there is rampant conscious bias at work at KPMG and the other accountancy firms.
When I worked for one the largest US multinationals I went to a senior management induction course in the US. Looking round the room about 90% were men and 95% were white.
I suspect if you check the profiles of KPMG’s U.K. partners it would be better, but certainly not representative of the U.K. population as a whole.
El stovey said:
We still had sold blokes sitting there in trying courses saying it wasn’t real and if people just did there job we wouldn’t need to talk about it.
As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them.
Fair enough.... who did you sell them to? As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them.
Johnnytheboy said:
El stovey said:
We still had sold blokes sitting there in trying courses saying it wasn’t real and if people just did there job we wouldn’t need to talk about it.
As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them.
Fair enough.... who did you sell them to? As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them.
I think what he said appears to be a cry for help.
He seems to be saying, "Look we've spent all this money on training and indoctrination, but achieved very little"
The next thing he needed to say was "And here is how we are going to fix it"
Or "Please will someone tell me how to fix it"
He seems to be saying, "Look we've spent all this money on training and indoctrination, but achieved very little"
The next thing he needed to say was "And here is how we are going to fix it"
Or "Please will someone tell me how to fix it"
Esceptico said:
GT03ROB said:
He's probably right but you can't go around saying it!
That is the problem and why I can’t take another day in the corporate environment. People forced to stay stuff they don’t mean to an audience who knows that they don’t believe what is being said. Yet everyone too scared for their positions to admit it openly. Repeat after me
You have free speech but you are not immune from the consequences of free speech.
Further re-education available as required
El stovey said:
You can see why it’s still a problem though. Even on this thread so far we have
It’s not an issue
It’s a good thing
It’s an issue but the training’s wrong
In my industry (aviation) we were looking at these things years ago as part of CRM and decision making as it helped reduce accidents and incidents.
We still had old blokes sitting there in training courses saying it wasn’t real or a problem and if people just did their job, we wouldn’t need to talk about it etc
As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them. Seems like other industries have a way to go yet.
Of course bias exists in all of us but it's the way it's looked at.It’s not an issue
It’s a good thing
It’s an issue but the training’s wrong
In my industry (aviation) we were looking at these things years ago as part of CRM and decision making as it helped reduce accidents and incidents.
We still had old blokes sitting there in training courses saying it wasn’t real or a problem and if people just did their job, we wouldn’t need to talk about it etc
As ever the people that don’t think it’s an issue are the ones that actually need the training most, thankfully most are gone now and the airline is much safer without them. Seems like other industries have a way to go yet.
Edited by El stovey on Friday 12th February 08:22
The accident investigation arm of the aviation industry couldn't be further removed from the unconscious bias fad. For starters they don't set out with a preconceived conclusion, or a method structured upon said conclusion as a known "fact", (suprise surprise when they then prove it to be "true")
I don't think that's the point El Stovey was making. He was talking about unconscious bias (or preconceived prejudices - which is a more accurate description) which can exist in flight crew. And can lead to accidents.
I don't think we was accusing the accident investigators of being biased.
I don't think we was accusing the accident investigators of being biased.
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