Racist Political Adviser
Discussion
Sorry for the Mail link but there doesn't appear to be a BBC one for some reason. I don't suppose a senior politician appointing an openly racist adviser is their kind of story.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9295169/H...
What the hell was that guy ever doing in any sort of public office?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9295169/H...
What the hell was that guy ever doing in any sort of public office?
Toyin Agbetu! Thought I recognised that name.
TBH reading his comments they dont read as anti semitic, rather saying that African slaves were treated as bad/ worse than jews in WW2, but with less recognition. He may have said other stuff though.
He used to make some fantastic deep house/ garage music back in the late 80s/ early 90s too.
TBH reading his comments they dont read as anti semitic, rather saying that African slaves were treated as bad/ worse than jews in WW2, but with less recognition. He may have said other stuff though.
He used to make some fantastic deep house/ garage music back in the late 80s/ early 90s too.
KAgantua said:
TBH reading his comments they dont read as anti semitic, rather saying that African slaves were treated as bad/ worse than jews in WW2, but with less recognition. He may have said other stuff though.
Taken in isolation perhaps, but by referencing Tony Martin (author of The Jewish Onslaught, not the burglar shooter) and using the language he did I don't think this was a mere casual observation.Anyway what irks me more is not that he said these things or made that crass comparison but the reaction, or rather total lack of. Can you imagine if an adviser to Boris Johnson compared the Berbery slave trade to the holocaust, or even pointed out that many black Africans did quite well out of selling fellow Africans to the slave traders?
The BBC would be having kittens, the party hierarchy would disown them.
I’m not going in to the issue at hand, but more a tangent.
I do think it unfortunate that the involvement of Africans in the slave trade is not talked about. Not because I think we should be pointing and saying “look they did it too” but because I think it important to tell the whole story and, more importantly, it erases important African history.
In the attempt to hide or minimise the involvement of Black Africans in the slave trade we fail to talk about the great empires of Africa. We don’t talk about the reality of the history. Of how the countries were formed on practical needs of later imperial rulers rather than historic identity. We fail to see the large, powerful and wealthy empires and kingdoms that existed in west Africa and the Bantu states. We fail to see that East Africa has strong ties to the Arab states and how the Mediterranean was once the key identity to people around it rather than the land mass. We continue to see Africa as one homogeneous lump. A forbidding land, with dark interior and petty tribal wars.
This causes a few issues. It fails to recognise the western privilege many Afro-Caribbean and African Americans hold, as they claim to talk with authority on “Africa”. It hides the rich and complex history of a continent. It allows a small number of people to impress on the world what their image of “African” culture is. Like letting me claim that European culture is whippets, flat caps and warm ale. It allows China and Arab nations to develop links with African nations by understanding them rather than ignoring them and treating them as one mass.
We should not ignore or forget the slave trade, how abhorrent it was, or the lasting impact. But we should also not let people packed in to ships in chains, forced to work in cotton plantations and be treated as a commodity to be our only, and overriding, understands of 1.3 billion people, 30million km2 and 6000+ years of civilisation.
I do think it unfortunate that the involvement of Africans in the slave trade is not talked about. Not because I think we should be pointing and saying “look they did it too” but because I think it important to tell the whole story and, more importantly, it erases important African history.
In the attempt to hide or minimise the involvement of Black Africans in the slave trade we fail to talk about the great empires of Africa. We don’t talk about the reality of the history. Of how the countries were formed on practical needs of later imperial rulers rather than historic identity. We fail to see the large, powerful and wealthy empires and kingdoms that existed in west Africa and the Bantu states. We fail to see that East Africa has strong ties to the Arab states and how the Mediterranean was once the key identity to people around it rather than the land mass. We continue to see Africa as one homogeneous lump. A forbidding land, with dark interior and petty tribal wars.
This causes a few issues. It fails to recognise the western privilege many Afro-Caribbean and African Americans hold, as they claim to talk with authority on “Africa”. It hides the rich and complex history of a continent. It allows a small number of people to impress on the world what their image of “African” culture is. Like letting me claim that European culture is whippets, flat caps and warm ale. It allows China and Arab nations to develop links with African nations by understanding them rather than ignoring them and treating them as one mass.
We should not ignore or forget the slave trade, how abhorrent it was, or the lasting impact. But we should also not let people packed in to ships in chains, forced to work in cotton plantations and be treated as a commodity to be our only, and overriding, understands of 1.3 billion people, 30million km2 and 6000+ years of civilisation.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
KAgantua said:
TBH reading his comments they dont read as anti semitic, rather saying that African slaves were treated as bad/ worse than jews in WW2, but with less recognition. He may have said other stuff though.
Taken in isolation perhaps, but by referencing Tony Martin (author of The Jewish Onslaught, not the burglar shooter) and using the language he did I don't think this was a mere casual observation.Anyway what irks me more is not that he said these things or made that crass comparison but the reaction, or rather total lack of. Can you imagine if an adviser to Boris Johnson compared the Berbery slave trade to the holocaust, or even pointed out that many black Africans did quite well out of selling fellow Africans to the slave traders?
The BBC would be having kittens, the party hierarchy would disown them.
Edited by biggbn on Friday 26th February 10:04
biggbn said:
Like the antisemitic Aberdeen candidate who the Tories suspended but was then reinstated last year? That recieved similar lack of coverage didn't it? It's everywhere, and if proven, people should be expelled expelled for life, problem being, define anti-semitism? If I say the ongoing treatment of the Palestinians by Israel appalls me, some will say I am being antisemitic and blinkered. If I say the bombing campaign by the Palestinians appalls me some will say I am islamaphobic, when the truth is I am neither....
Can't disagree with that on the whole, but I do remember hearing about it and sure enough if I Google antisemitism Aberdeen it comes up Edited by biggbn on Friday 26th February 10:04
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-...
JuanCarlosFandango said:
biggbn said:
Like the antisemitic Aberdeen candidate who the Tories suspended but was then reinstated last year? That recieved similar lack of coverage didn't it? It's everywhere, and if proven, people should be expelled expelled for life, problem being, define anti-semitism? If I say the ongoing treatment of the Palestinians by Israel appalls me, some will say I am being antisemitic and blinkered. If I say the bombing campaign by the Palestinians appalls me some will say I am islamaphobic, when the truth is I am neither....
Can't disagree with that on the whole, but I do remember hearing about it and sure enough if I Google antisemitism Aberdeen it comes up Edited by biggbn on Friday 26th February 10:04
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-...
It's the correct result removing Toyin Agbetu - what was Sadiq thinking?
Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
s1962a said:
It's the correct result removing Toyin Agbetu - what was Sadiq thinking?
Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
Many years ago but reading the article he seems like a lovely, lovely human being...
Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
Many years ago but reading the article he seems like a lovely, lovely human being...
amusingduck said:
biggbn said:
If I say the ongoing treatment of the Palestinians by Israel appalls me, some will say I am being antisemitic and blinkered.
Only cretins, to be fair.It's not difficult to criticise Israel without being anti-semitic, though the most vocal seem to really struggle
s1962a said:
It's the correct result removing Toyin Agbetu - what was Sadiq thinking?
Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
Somewhat dubious to claim "misogyny". What he is saying is that current welfare policy, including public housing policy, encourages single parent households and are bumping dual parent households (which also contains women) down the housing list.Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
This is no doubt coming from a religious perspective. So you might be able to claim these are informing his beliefs, but it is tenuous at best to link this to misogyny.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Taken in isolation perhaps, but by referencing Tony Martin (author of The Jewish Onslaught, not the burglar shooter) and using the language he did I don't think this was a mere casual observation.
Anyway what irks me more is not that he said these things or made that crass comparison but the reaction, or rather total lack of. Can you imagine if an adviser to Boris Johnson compared the Berbery slave trade to the holocaust, or even pointed out that many black Africans did quite well out of selling fellow Africans to the slave traders?
The Barbary slave trade went on for centuries and it totals out at more slaves traded than the Atlantic slave trade, and by some distance. They had time on their hands, but not the organisation. Also, they took slaves, which the Atlantic slave traders didn't. That's not a point in their favour; it was probably just a cost/benefit equation;Anyway what irks me more is not that he said these things or made that crass comparison but the reaction, or rather total lack of. Can you imagine if an adviser to Boris Johnson compared the Berbery slave trade to the holocaust, or even pointed out that many black Africans did quite well out of selling fellow Africans to the slave traders?
There were slavers raiding southern England and Ireland, sometimes taking everyone in a village, except for the quick and the dead. They were not stopped until the early 19thC, using the navy to do so. This was around the same time as Wilberforce brought about the end of the Atlantic slave trade.
We studied the mid 17thC to a significant extent at my senior school, and there were a number of stories of coastal villages being denunded of population. It was a significant problem in southern England and, I assume, Ireland as well. Since then, I've not seen much in the way of studies or books on the subject.
I suppose it might be seen as deflecting blame from the British involvement in the slave trade.
Derek Smith said:
The Barbary slave trade went on for centuries and it totals out at more slaves traded than the Atlantic slave trade, and by some distance. They had time on their hands, but not the organisation. Also, they took slaves, which the Atlantic slave traders didn't. That's not a point in their favour; it was probably just a cost/benefit equation;
I am not sure that is correct Derek. The claim online is that the Barbary Coast raiders took just over 1 million white Europeans into slavery between 1530 and 1780 which isnt at the same level as the Atlantic slave trade.What is the case is that the attention is almost exclusively on the Atlantic slave trade and ignores all the other slaves in that period. One of the areas that suffered most from slave raids was eastern Europe. In this case the raiders were Tartars.
A Winner Is You said:
amusingduck said:
biggbn said:
If I say the ongoing treatment of the Palestinians by Israel appalls me, some will say I am being antisemitic and blinkered.
Only cretins, to be fair.It's not difficult to criticise Israel without being anti-semitic, though the most vocal seem to really struggle
biggbn said:
s1962a said:
It's the correct result removing Toyin Agbetu - what was Sadiq thinking?
Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
Many years ago but reading the article he seems like a lovely, lovely human being...Politicians you say? Maybe there is an election coming up? I raise you mysogny from the other side
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/21/s...
Only on my scale of wrong though. Obviously the Guardian feel differently in the prominence given to each story.
Derek Smith said:
The Barbary slave trade went on for centuries and it totals out at more slaves traded than the Atlantic slave trade, and by some distance. They had time on their hands, but not the organisation. Also, they took slaves, which the Atlantic slave traders didn't. That's not a point in their favour; it was probably just a cost/benefit equation;
There were slavers raiding southern England and Ireland, sometimes taking everyone in a village, except for the quick and the dead. They were not stopped until the early 19thC, using the navy to do so. This was around the same time as Wilberforce brought about the end of the Atlantic slave trade.
We studied the mid 17thC to a significant extent at my senior school, and there were a number of stories of coastal villages being denunded of population. It was a significant problem in southern England and, I assume, Ireland as well. Since then, I've not seen much in the way of studies or books on the subject.
I suppose it might be seen as deflecting blame from the British involvement in the slave trade.
I'm pretty sure it hasn't had the same attention. Nor have we demanded reparations from Morocco or Algeria.There were slavers raiding southern England and Ireland, sometimes taking everyone in a village, except for the quick and the dead. They were not stopped until the early 19thC, using the navy to do so. This was around the same time as Wilberforce brought about the end of the Atlantic slave trade.
We studied the mid 17thC to a significant extent at my senior school, and there were a number of stories of coastal villages being denunded of population. It was a significant problem in southern England and, I assume, Ireland as well. Since then, I've not seen much in the way of studies or books on the subject.
I suppose it might be seen as deflecting blame from the British involvement in the slave trade.
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