East end state school beats Eton to Oxbridge places.

[Louis Balfour]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/brampton...

But it wasn't a level playing field.

Despite what the news channels are reporting, Oxbridge is targeting state school pupils and ethnic minorities, meaning that they are far more likely to get a place than white independent school children. It is a case of "positive discrimination".

Right or wrong?

[PeteinSQ]

I went to Ampleforth College which is often referred to as the Catholic Eton. I actually support this positive discrimination to a point. If you look at the fact that class sizes at Eton/Ampleforth/Rugby are small, facilities incredible etc and compare them to the average state comprehensive you really can't say that an A at A level is as hard to achieve at Eton as it is at the school of hardknocks in Croydon. Once these children then get to uni and facilities are equally available to both those from private and those from state school you might reasonably expect that the bright, state educated child will outperform.

Now this isnt just me making it up either, there are studies that back it up

https://www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/news/state-...

[standards]

The other view is that this makes it a level playing field; private schooling being the social engineering that tilts the field.

Went to a fee paying school myself.

[mrporsche]

You also need to account for the amount of money thrown at the school.

Being rich doesn’t mean you are clever, and being poor doesn’t mean you are stupid

[EliseNick]

Oxbridge is targeting state school pupils and ethnic minorities in order to encourage applications, which are far lower in proportion from the state sector. Once applications have been received, then its up to the individual candidate. Almost all applicants are interviewed, and will be considered carefully taking into account (of course) their background. There's not really a mystery to this process. College Fellows (who have almost complete autonomy in this matter) want to attract and teach the brightest and best - the person interviewing will probably end up teaching successful applicants in a year or so. So the last thing they want to do is give an offer to some chump, either because of some imaginary quota system, or because they seem like a jolly good addition to the college rugger team, old chap.

[Sheepshanks]

brickwall said:

Worth noting that Brampton has 25% more students per year than Eton, so on a proportional basis your chances of Oxbridge entry are still higher at Eton. But only just.

Is that accounting for two fewer years at Eton? Their 6th forms are pretty similar sizes. Must admit didn't realise how many pupils are at Eton - it's a little under capacity too.

[Bradgate]

I’m delighted for these young people. They all came across very impressively when interviewed on Sky News.

I’m even more delighted that by earning places at Oxbridge, they are taking places away from posh, entitled, privileged, privately-educated tts.

[Sheepshanks]

Bradgate said:

I’m even more delighted that by earning places at Oxbridge, they are taking places away from posh, entitled, privileged, privately-educated tts.

Imagine how gutted their parents must feel having hosed ~£500K into educating their child to see their place awarded to a kid from Newham.

[Biggy Stardust]

Discrimination is wrong. Places should be awarded solely on merit.

[Dromedary66]

Eton is full of rich thickos so it's actually surprising how many are offered Oxbridge places.

If you are well off and have an intelligent child you'd send them to Winchester or similarly selective schools.

[Bradgate]

Sheepshanks said:

Imagine how gutted their parents must feel having hosed ~£500K into educating their child to see their place awarded to a kid from Newham.

A black kid from Newham, who doesn’t even speak nicely, to add insult to injury. My heart bleeds. Truly, it does.

[standards]

Biggy Stardust said:

Discrimination is wrong. Places should be awarded solely on merit.

I think the argument is that 3As from an East End challenging background and school displays more merit than equal performance from a more pleasant background.

[JeffreyD]

Biggy Stardust said:

Discrimination is wrong. Places should be awarded solely on merit.

They are.

It's considerably more difficult to do well at a Comp than it is at Eton.

So this is very meritocratic, and not before time

[PeteinSQ]

standards said:

I think the argument is that 3As from an East End challenging background and school displays more merit than equal performance from a more pleasant background.

That's exactly the argument. To use a st analogy it would be like saying that if I beat Usain Bolt over 100m when I'm wearing spikes and he's in a deep sea divers costume I must somehow be a better sprinter than him.

[Biggy Stardust]

standards said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Discrimination is wrong. Places should be awarded solely on merit.

I think the argument is that 3As from an East End challenging background and school displays more merit than equal performance from a more pleasant background.

The suspicion is that this isn't how it happens & that the playing field is slightly tilted.

[Bradgate]

Biggy Stardust said:

Discrimination is wrong. Places should be awarded solely on merit.

I couldn’t agree more, but AAA achieved by a kid from a deprived background who went to a bog-standard state school > A*A*A* from Eton.

[Gweeds]

You might like how it’s been titled towards the like of Eton for decades?

[JeffreyD]

Biggy Stardust said:

The suspicion is that this isn't how it happens & that the playing field is slightly tilted.

There is no need for there to be a suspicion as the policy if published.

I can't currently find it but it's out there somewhere.

All the leading universities I've looked at recently have a similar policy.
(One in final year Oxford, one applying to decent universities this year. From private schools)

[Gecko1978]

The college scandal in the US where rich parents gamed the system to get their kids into college threw up some interesting stats. Iirc, your background had more impact on your sucess than college. So I would be willing to bet if you go to Eton, regardless of going to cambridge or the University of East Anglia your outcome will still be the same.

[Wombat3]

JeffreyD said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Discrimination is wrong. Places should be awarded solely on merit.

They are.

It's considerably more difficult to do well at a Comp than it is at Eton.

So this is very meritocratic, and not before time

In truth we will only know once the degrees are handed out because the universities are not going to discriminate. Once they get there they will all be judged on merit.