Put it back together

[NMNeil]

That was the message to some developers.
It's nice to see citizens coming together to fix a wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/mar/...

[Biggy Stardust]

Justice seen to be done. Kudos.

[Ayahuasca]

Great outcome.

[t400ble]

Great story

[rolex]

Batteries Not Included!

[KAgantua]

Shame about all the other 'fires' that happen (Brick and concrete burns so quickly!) in this scenario, but great little pub

[Tankrizzo]

Good to see.

On a similar note this is a great article about saving a pub from a developer:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/...

[nikaiyo2]

Pretty usual Guardian drivel really. Heavy on politicized BS but lacking in any kind of accuracy. Written to drive an agenda not report fact.

[gregs656]

nikaiyo2 said:

Pretty usual Guardian drivel really. Heavy on politicized BS but lacking in any kind of accuracy. Written to drive an agenda not report fact.

After that well reasoned argument you have convinced me that the pub wasn't partially demolished and then rebuilt after a campaign by the locals.

[NMNeil]

nikaiyo2 said:

Pretty usual Guardian drivel really. Heavy on politicized BS but lacking in any kind of accuracy. Written to drive an agenda not report fact.

Please itemize the inaccuracies.

[AC43]

nikaiyo2 said:

Pretty usual Guardian drivel really. Heavy on politicized BS but lacking in any kind of accuracy. Written to drive an agenda not report fact.

You're talking through your arse. That pub is local to me and the story is 100% accurate.

Kudos to Westminster Council for not caving in to a developer who was no doubt happy to take a chance on flouting the law.

[Ian Geary]

nikaiyo2 said:

Pretty usual Guardian drivel really. Heavy on politicized BS but lacking in any kind of accuracy. Written to drive an agenda not report fact.

Guardian said:

Across the country, pubs are being shuttered at an alarming rate – scooped up by developers and ransacked for profit – changing the face of neighbourhoods and turning our beloved locals into estate agents, betting shops, and luxury flats. This is the story of how one pub fought back

The graun do play to an audience, but can't see much wrong with that article?

Of course, if the pubs were so "beloved" of locals, they wouldn't have been closing so fast since 2008 of course.

But we're mixing up 2 issues here

1- developers trying to pull a fast one, and the authorities actually for once standing their ground. Damn right and hopefully sends a message to all the other developers trying to exploit or avoid our listing and planning system

2- long term decline of pubs caused by amongst other things smoking ban, high tax high rent high nndr all leading to high prices, cheap home drinking, poor commercial decisions in some cases, covid of course as well as the development potential for well situated pubs being so staggeringly high.

The article is more about the second problem. Perhaps the country should pay a landlord tax to guarantee pub landlords a way of life that is no longer competitive in the free market? Or maybe it shouldn't.

I can't really complain about capitalism allowing people to "lose", as it would be hypocritical for all the winners to be allowed to "win".

But I am dead against developers trying to screw the system over, because it's a well trodden path that needed to be stopped.

[valiant]

nikaiyo2 said:

Pretty usual Guardian drivel really. Heavy on politicized BS but lacking in any kind of accuracy. Written to drive an agenda not report fact.

Local paper any better?

https://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/carlton-tavern...


What facts are missing? Developers knocked the pub down before permission was granted and the council forced them to rebuild it brick by brick.

Developers chanced their arm and lost.

[powerstroke]

Good !! Too much of our history and uniqueness is being destroyed , so these soulless chancers can make a quick profit while turning our towns into identikit blandness ,

[NMNeil]

Unfortunately the developers still own the pub, and still want it gone, by fair means or foul.

[nikaiyo2]

valiant said:

Local paper any better?

https://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/carlton-tavern...


What facts are missing? Developers knocked the pub down before permission was granted and the council forced them to rebuild it brick by brick.

Developers chanced their arm and lost.

It’s in no way unusual for listed buildings to get damaged, to one degree or another during renovation.

Of the ones I have direct knowledge of ALL have been reinstated to what was there (largely) to start with.
There was no citizen action, no campaigning, no journalists just the planning department doing what they should always do.

Maybe things are different in London?

It would seem a brave/ fool hardy developer to hope they could demolish a listed facade a “get away” with it.

Don’t get me wrong I am all for the councils enforcing rules like this.

[blinkythefish]

nikaiyo2 said:

valiant said:

Local paper any better?

https://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/carlton-tavern...


What facts are missing? Developers knocked the pub down before permission was granted and the council forced them to rebuild it brick by brick.

Developers chanced their arm and lost.

It’s in no way unusual for listed buildings to get damaged, to one degree or another during renovation.

Of the ones I have direct knowledge of ALL have been reinstated to what was there (largely) to start with.
There was no citizen action, no campaigning, no journalists just the planning department doing what they should always do.

Maybe things are different in London?

It would seem a brave/ fool hardy developer to hope they could demolish a listed facade a “get away” with it.

Don’t get me wrong I am all for the councils enforcing rules like this.

I thought in this case they knocked it down before it could be listed, presumably to avoid listing. I guess they thought they could just pay a fine for demolition without planning permission.