Is the human race screwed?
Discussion
I’ve been following human economic and social development for almost 40 years. Most problems identified in the past have got substantially worse, not better over that time. Just some examples:
Population: I seem to remember in the 80s a lot of fuss about the global population exceeding 5 billion yet today we are on the verge of breaking through the 8 billion barrier. Rather than slowing down, growth seems to have accelerated.
Religion: for a while it seemed that the world was becoming more secular but in recent decades there has been a growth in fundamentalism - look at what has happened with Islam but also Hinduism in India
Democracy: the fall of the Iron curtain led to increased democracy but most countries and only democratic in name and in reality more people now live under repressive and/or corrupt regimes (China, India, most of Africa, etc).
Climate change: a lot of hot air expended and plenty of promises to do something meaningful at some some point in the future (when it will be somebody else’s problem) but CO2 emissions are still going up
Wrecking of the oceans: industrialised fishing is causing massive depopulation of fish stocks and destruction of marine habitats. Fish stocks have dropped by up to 97% (blue fin tuna) for some species
Deforestation- despite all the talk huge areas of pristine forest are lost each year
Loss of biodiversity - linked to the loss of forests, we are losing species faster than we can document them
Environmental degradation - micro plastics and chemicals found everywhere linked to various ills eg massive drop in male fertility
Environmental destruction - human made objects (roads, buildings, cars, etc) now outweigh the biomass of all living things on the planet. Humans and domesticated animals now represent around 95% of all animals by mass.
Freedom - we are monitored, filmed, tracked on line and generally policed much more closely now.
Of course some things have improved such as equality for women (although not everywhere) and world hunger yet looking at all the indicators it still looks like we are on the deck of the Titanic steaming towards the ice berg.
I don’t have a solution - at least not a politically acceptable one.
Population: I seem to remember in the 80s a lot of fuss about the global population exceeding 5 billion yet today we are on the verge of breaking through the 8 billion barrier. Rather than slowing down, growth seems to have accelerated.
Religion: for a while it seemed that the world was becoming more secular but in recent decades there has been a growth in fundamentalism - look at what has happened with Islam but also Hinduism in India
Democracy: the fall of the Iron curtain led to increased democracy but most countries and only democratic in name and in reality more people now live under repressive and/or corrupt regimes (China, India, most of Africa, etc).
Climate change: a lot of hot air expended and plenty of promises to do something meaningful at some some point in the future (when it will be somebody else’s problem) but CO2 emissions are still going up
Wrecking of the oceans: industrialised fishing is causing massive depopulation of fish stocks and destruction of marine habitats. Fish stocks have dropped by up to 97% (blue fin tuna) for some species
Deforestation- despite all the talk huge areas of pristine forest are lost each year
Loss of biodiversity - linked to the loss of forests, we are losing species faster than we can document them
Environmental degradation - micro plastics and chemicals found everywhere linked to various ills eg massive drop in male fertility
Environmental destruction - human made objects (roads, buildings, cars, etc) now outweigh the biomass of all living things on the planet. Humans and domesticated animals now represent around 95% of all animals by mass.
Freedom - we are monitored, filmed, tracked on line and generally policed much more closely now.
Of course some things have improved such as equality for women (although not everywhere) and world hunger yet looking at all the indicators it still looks like we are on the deck of the Titanic steaming towards the ice berg.
I don’t have a solution - at least not a politically acceptable one.
ked. Whether that's through a mass extinction event or the sun gobbling us up, we will eventually die out. If we manage to hit 1million years as a species we'll have done pretty well.Esceptico said:
Population: I seem to remember in the 80s a lot of fuss about the global population exceeding 5 billion yet today we are on the verge of breaking through the 8 billion barrier. Rather than slowing down, growth seems to have accelerated.
.
Growth has slowed but old people are refusing to do the decent thing. .
Esceptico said:
eldar said:
The idea we can destroy the planet is ridiculous. In a couple of million years there will be no trace of humans, except the odd fossil type stuff.
Which is why the thread is titled “is the human race screwed”Esceptico said:
I’ve been following human economic and social development for almost 40 years. Most problems identified in the past have got substantially worse, not better over that time. Just some examples:
Population: I seem to remember in the 80s a lot of fuss about the global population exceeding 5 billion yet today we are on the verge of breaking through the 8 billion barrier. Rather than slowing down, growth seems to have accelerated.
Religion: for a while it seemed that the world was becoming more secular but in recent decades there has been a growth in fundamentalism - look at what has happened with Islam but also Hinduism in India
Democracy: the fall of the Iron curtain led to increased democracy but most countries and only democratic in name and in reality more people now live under repressive and/or corrupt regimes (China, India, most of Africa, etc).
Climate change: a lot of hot air expended and plenty of promises to do something meaningful at some some point in the future (when it will be somebody else’s problem) but CO2 emissions are still going up
Wrecking of the oceans: industrialised fishing is causing massive depopulation of fish stocks and destruction of marine habitats. Fish stocks have dropped by up to 97% (blue fin tuna) for some species
Deforestation- despite all the talk huge areas of pristine forest are lost each year
Loss of biodiversity - linked to the loss of forests, we are losing species faster than we can document them
Environmental degradation - micro plastics and chemicals found everywhere linked to various ills eg massive drop in male fertility
Environmental destruction - human made objects (roads, buildings, cars, etc) now outweigh the biomass of all living things on the planet. Humans and domesticated animals now represent around 95% of all animals by mass.
Freedom - we are monitored, filmed, tracked on line and generally policed much more closely now.
Of course some things have improved such as equality for women (although not everywhere) and world hunger yet looking at all the indicators it still looks like we are on the deck of the Titanic steaming towards the ice berg.
I don’t have a solution - at least not a politically acceptable one.
Fully agree, photos from the UK showing where folks have gathered in recent days and the huge amount of litter left behind shows a colossal amount of disrespect to both the immediate community and the wider environment. Population: I seem to remember in the 80s a lot of fuss about the global population exceeding 5 billion yet today we are on the verge of breaking through the 8 billion barrier. Rather than slowing down, growth seems to have accelerated.
Religion: for a while it seemed that the world was becoming more secular but in recent decades there has been a growth in fundamentalism - look at what has happened with Islam but also Hinduism in India
Democracy: the fall of the Iron curtain led to increased democracy but most countries and only democratic in name and in reality more people now live under repressive and/or corrupt regimes (China, India, most of Africa, etc).
Climate change: a lot of hot air expended and plenty of promises to do something meaningful at some some point in the future (when it will be somebody else’s problem) but CO2 emissions are still going up
Wrecking of the oceans: industrialised fishing is causing massive depopulation of fish stocks and destruction of marine habitats. Fish stocks have dropped by up to 97% (blue fin tuna) for some species
Deforestation- despite all the talk huge areas of pristine forest are lost each year
Loss of biodiversity - linked to the loss of forests, we are losing species faster than we can document them
Environmental degradation - micro plastics and chemicals found everywhere linked to various ills eg massive drop in male fertility
Environmental destruction - human made objects (roads, buildings, cars, etc) now outweigh the biomass of all living things on the planet. Humans and domesticated animals now represent around 95% of all animals by mass.
Freedom - we are monitored, filmed, tracked on line and generally policed much more closely now.
Of course some things have improved such as equality for women (although not everywhere) and world hunger yet looking at all the indicators it still looks like we are on the deck of the Titanic steaming towards the ice berg.
I don’t have a solution - at least not a politically acceptable one.
Opinions may vary, but I would class them as vermin.
May be wrong, but from photos the folks leaving this detritus were all youngsters - probably the same ones who protest against pollution.
If you look at a geological time scale. The human race is massively insignificant. They have managed to screw things up, in a massive way, in a phenomenally short amount of ( geological) time. The world will soon be inhabited solely by super intelligent cockroaches, driving around in ( electric ) Honda cars.
Yes we are. Totally.
"Scientists haven't realised that just because they can, doesn't necessary mean that they should,"
Global warming is something we can react to and hopefully in the long term cope with. However the scientists and tech firms, who clearly haven't seen virtually any sci fi film ever made, seem determined to rush through any practical application of AI they can without thinking of any of the consequences. Its started small but now its building and building. Technology is great. I wouldn't be typing this if it wasn't. But its making us lazy and more compliant, ready to accept our gradual decline into obsolescence in a society that we created.
Everyone wants robot butlers, right? But think about it, if you have got robot butlers, you have the AI systems in place to build robot salesmen to sell them to you. And that means forget manufacturing jobs, that means every retail job - gone. The sex industry (always the leader in new technology as Sony will tell you.) is very close to perfecting totally workable sex partners so even the oldest profession will be gone. But at least that might help solve another serious issue, over-population. As the great Bill Hicks once said;
"Just stop your rutting, just for one day. Lets work out this food/air deal. Then go back to your rutting,"
Because if we don't we will have billions of people that have already been born, literately sitting around with doing to do, waiting to be fed with open mouths like chicks in a nest. And if that food doesn't turn up things will start to turn nasty as the few who can actually still stand up from their sofas will start rebelling. Then the whole thing will collapse like a pack of cards.
The basic problem is that we have leaders who won't see past the next election. They only want to do things that will keep them in power. They don't or can't see the bigger picture and they won't until its too late. It probably won't be in my lifetime and probably not your children's . But if I had grand children I would be greatly concerned. Billions will die. It is inevitable.
I must go.
Please.
I am tired.
"Scientists haven't realised that just because they can, doesn't necessary mean that they should,"
Global warming is something we can react to and hopefully in the long term cope with. However the scientists and tech firms, who clearly haven't seen virtually any sci fi film ever made, seem determined to rush through any practical application of AI they can without thinking of any of the consequences. Its started small but now its building and building. Technology is great. I wouldn't be typing this if it wasn't. But its making us lazy and more compliant, ready to accept our gradual decline into obsolescence in a society that we created.
Everyone wants robot butlers, right? But think about it, if you have got robot butlers, you have the AI systems in place to build robot salesmen to sell them to you. And that means forget manufacturing jobs, that means every retail job - gone. The sex industry (always the leader in new technology as Sony will tell you.) is very close to perfecting totally workable sex partners so even the oldest profession will be gone. But at least that might help solve another serious issue, over-population. As the great Bill Hicks once said;
"Just stop your rutting, just for one day. Lets work out this food/air deal. Then go back to your rutting,"
Because if we don't we will have billions of people that have already been born, literately sitting around with doing to do, waiting to be fed with open mouths like chicks in a nest. And if that food doesn't turn up things will start to turn nasty as the few who can actually still stand up from their sofas will start rebelling. Then the whole thing will collapse like a pack of cards.
The basic problem is that we have leaders who won't see past the next election. They only want to do things that will keep them in power. They don't or can't see the bigger picture and they won't until its too late. It probably won't be in my lifetime and probably not your children's . But if I had grand children I would be greatly concerned. Billions will die. It is inevitable.
I must go.
Please.
I am tired.
OzzyR1 said:
Fully agree, photos from the UK showing where folks have gathered in recent days and the huge amount of litter left behind shows a colossal amount of disrespect to both the immediate community and the wider environment.
Opinions may vary, but I would class them as vermin.
May be wrong, but from photos the folks leaving this detritus were all youngsters - probably the same ones who protest against pollution.
Sadly just an average bunch of people, and yeah those responsible I'd class as vermin too. Lacking basic common decency. Opinions may vary, but I would class them as vermin.
May be wrong, but from photos the folks leaving this detritus were all youngsters - probably the same ones who protest against pollution.
Olivera said:
I would suggest reading Steven Pinker's excellent Enlightenment Now - almost everything you have stated as getting worse is quite easily refuted, or we can at least mitigate against.
The world has in fact been getting better over the long term in most respects.
I already mentioned that some things have improved. Ironically, better health and higher consumption - one measure of improvement to human lives - are causes of many of the points listed eg population growth, climate change, destruction of the environment.The world has in fact been getting better over the long term in most respects.
Please easily refute every point listed eg show me how there hasn’t been reforestation or how it can be easily mitigated as you claim.
You could become very famous/rich if you can provide simple mitigating strategies for the list of issues.
IIRC less than 1% of the time humans have been around has been in any kind of society and only 1% of that time with modern technology. (something like that anyway!)
So basically the 99+% of the time we have been here we have done nothing other than breed and kill each other with sticks.
So basically the 99+% of the time we have been here we have done nothing other than breed and kill each other with sticks.
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