Over 70's driving restrictions.
Discussion
So is this a good thing; getting the old codgers off the roads?
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/354607/over-70s...
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/354607/over-70s...
Looks like letting the codgers stay on the road. With restrictions. Seems reasonable. My dad drive to age 89 but stopped driving at night and only drove locally.
Depends on the person. A friend of my dad's drove from Scotland to France every year until he was 90. He was a fit old guy though. Former over 65 British marathon record holder.
Depends on the person. A friend of my dad's drove from Scotland to France every year until he was 90. He was a fit old guy though. Former over 65 British marathon record holder.
Edited by irc on Wednesday 21st April 22:23
It's not a blanket ban. It's restricting those who are impaired through age-related illness.
Doesn't seem unreasonable. And let's not forget that those who are poor drivers in their youth are not likely to improve signifcantly as they age, not that this piece of proposed legislation would help with that.
Doesn't seem unreasonable. And let's not forget that those who are poor drivers in their youth are not likely to improve signifcantly as they age, not that this piece of proposed legislation would help with that.
If someone's an unobservant poor driver at 25, chances are they'll be a poor driver at 75.
If someone's an observant good driver at 25, chances are they'll be a good driver at 75.
Unfortunately there's a great deal of ageism when it comes to driving.
My dad is 75, works full time and drives lots of funeral cars for the business, reversing the hearse/limo etc through a garage door that's a few inches wider than the car. No problem at all.
A friend is 92 and still works full time as a mechanic (although has Friday's off now) he not only owns and drives 5 cars, he services and maintains them too. Awesome that at 92.
If someone's an observant good driver at 25, chances are they'll be a good driver at 75.
Unfortunately there's a great deal of ageism when it comes to driving.
My dad is 75, works full time and drives lots of funeral cars for the business, reversing the hearse/limo etc through a garage door that's a few inches wider than the car. No problem at all.
A friend is 92 and still works full time as a mechanic (although has Friday's off now) he not only owns and drives 5 cars, he services and maintains them too. Awesome that at 92.
NMNeil said:
So is this a good thing; getting the old codgers off the roads?
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/354607/over-70s...
You have misunderstood the article. It’s talking about keeping people on the road, not getting them off.https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/354607/over-70s...
From reading that I would expect we'll get more "old codgers" on the road rather than less, and that's from someone only months away from the "old codger" status of 70.
At the moment if you've got any illness which might impair your driving you will most likely get your licence revoked until you're in better health. I know someone who's been on/off/on/off driving due to epilepsy, after x months of no symptoms he gets his licence back again.
That article implies that such illness might be allowed limited road use whereas at the moment it would be a complete ban. TBH I'm not sure that's a great idea, it's going to take some serious administration & maybe annual medical checks with your GP, etc.
Finally, for the ageist PH, looking at the statistics from 2019 if we want to reduce road deaths, etc, perhaps we should increase the driving age to 25 instead.
(and then after a couple of years where the 25-30 band show high accidents due to the inexperience of driving, we can move it up another 5 years to 30...)
At the moment if you've got any illness which might impair your driving you will most likely get your licence revoked until you're in better health. I know someone who's been on/off/on/off driving due to epilepsy, after x months of no symptoms he gets his licence back again.
That article implies that such illness might be allowed limited road use whereas at the moment it would be a complete ban. TBH I'm not sure that's a great idea, it's going to take some serious administration & maybe annual medical checks with your GP, etc.
Finally, for the ageist PH, looking at the statistics from 2019 if we want to reduce road deaths, etc, perhaps we should increase the driving age to 25 instead.
(and then after a couple of years where the 25-30 band show high accidents due to the inexperience of driving, we can move it up another 5 years to 30...)
It’s pretty well known that skills and reactions etc all decline as we get older. Maybe have everyone do a test to renew the privileges of our license every x many years (at an increasing rate over 60 or 70) to actually see if we’re still competent and safe.
It’s a bit odd that someone can learn to drive as a teenager (possibly in some quiet rural location) and never have to be assessed again.
It’s a bit odd that someone can learn to drive as a teenager (possibly in some quiet rural location) and never have to be assessed again.
It's all about the individual.
Bidding farewell today to a mate who was in his 70s and until recently could be regularly found threading his Ferrari 430 though the lanes with the speed, precision and safety that would make a 20 year old look 90.
Several years ago, I watched an old Blower Bentley in a meticulously controlled drift - in the wet - on the slip road from the M23 to the M25. Wonderful stuff. Pulled into Clacket Lane where the Bentley had also pulled with the driver getting out who could not have been a day less than 80.
Bidding farewell today to a mate who was in his 70s and until recently could be regularly found threading his Ferrari 430 though the lanes with the speed, precision and safety that would make a 20 year old look 90.
Several years ago, I watched an old Blower Bentley in a meticulously controlled drift - in the wet - on the slip road from the M23 to the M25. Wonderful stuff. Pulled into Clacket Lane where the Bentley had also pulled with the driver getting out who could not have been a day less than 80.
El stovey said:
It’s pretty well known that skills and reactions etc all decline as we get older. Maybe have everyone do a test to renew the privileges of our license every x many years (at an increasing rate over 60 or 70) to actually see if we’re still competent and safe.
It’s a bit odd that someone can learn to drive as a teenager (possibly in some quiet rural location) and never have to be assessed again.
I'd agree that in some people their reactions decline with age but I'm not so sure about skill. There's things like experience to consider (look at the figures above for 17-24 for example) and I'd say for most folks as you get older you tend to be less aggressive and more cautious in driving. I've noticed I drive slower now since I retired than I did in my 20s/30s/40s despite owning more powerful cars.It’s a bit odd that someone can learn to drive as a teenager (possibly in some quiet rural location) and never have to be assessed again.
Then you come to the logistics of re-testing. 5 million over 70s out of 32million UK drivers. 1.6m driving tests a year. If you make over 70s re-test every 3 years when you must renew your license then you're going to roughly double the number of driving tests.
That's a ker-ching moment until you find that some decide not to bother and use their free bus pass instead, phone a taxi or start to get their weekly shopping delivered. Then you consider that old folks mostly buy new(ish) cars and have garage servicing, quite apart from paying fixed costs like insurance & road tax. The amount I spend on cars for the mileage I drive is stupidly high and I bet I'm typical of OAPs.
It might seem a good idea to get rid of the older motorist but financially..... the government needs revenue from somewhere and the motorist has always been an easy target.
Finally, you're right on the "test at 17, drive forever" anomaly . Personally I'd consider more re-testing after motoring offences regardless of age as more reasonable and you could set the bar much lower. Re-testing at 9 points would probably slow down quite a lot of drivers for instance.....
55palfers said:
I wonder how many Doctors are still practising at 70+?
Pilots in most countries have to retire at 65 (due to increased risk of things like having a sudden heart attack at work) and that’s after being assessed at least every year in the simulator and also having medicals each year. So you have to retire due to increased health risk even though you demonstrate your skills in a test each year and your health in a medical.
In BA you used to have to retire at 55.
El stovey said:
It’s pretty well known that skills and reactions etc all decline as we get older. Maybe have everyone do a test to renew the privileges of our license every x many years (at an increasing rate over 60 or 70) to actually see if we’re still competent and safe.
It’s a bit odd that someone can learn to drive as a teenager (possibly in some quiet rural location) and never have to be assessed again.
I do agree with this, but I recognise the logistical issues.It’s a bit odd that someone can learn to drive as a teenager (possibly in some quiet rural location) and never have to be assessed again.
My mother is 90 and still driving. On her 90th birthday she stuffed her car in a brake/accelerator mix up that caused all of us to re-evaluate whether she should be driving, People of all ages have managed to stamp on the wrong pedal, so I took her out to do some supervised driving. First up, we got her eyes tested - nothing wrong at all, clean bill of health, optician had no issues with driving whatsoever.
Supervised driving was “interesting” initially in her new Yaris. Very hesitant initially, very slow, and making lots of mistakes that were basic driving errors, nothing to do with age at all. Those errors were pointed out and corrected. Lane discipline on roundabouts was hammered home. After about 150 miles of supervised driving, she was fine, perfectly competent, if a little slow.
The age related issues are enlightening. There’s nothing wrong with her eyes, but there is a list of things that she literally can’t do:
- flip from long range vision to close range instantly and back. So looking at the instruments doesn’t really happen. Probably one of the reasons the elderly drive so slowly, they can’t tell with precision how fast they are going, Over the years she has picked up loads of camera tickets for 34 in a 30 and stuff like this
- low sun. Can’t handle it.
- rapid light change (light/dark)
- headlights at night
The other issue with getting old is that your neck doesn’t work as well as it used to. She can’t just “look over her shoulder”. A reversing camera has been a godsend. But there are some junctions where you need the neck of an Owl to do it safely. These are a problem.
So what’s the outcome? A bit like they are suggesting, she’s making sure that she drives when she is capable of doing it. No longer at night, no longer early morning or evening when the sun might be in her eyes. We’ve changed her frequent journeys to avoid junctions that she can’t turn her neck enough for. She has a few regular trips that she knows well, and I’m making sure she gets a bit of supervision to keep an eye on it. Overall the big lesson for me was some analysis of her driving, not the age related issues, but terrible habits that she had got into and thought were “normal”.
rxe said:
I do agree with this, but I recognise the logistical issues.
My mother is 90 and still driving. On her 90th birthday she stuffed her car in a brake/accelerator mix up that caused all of us to re-evaluate whether she should be driving, People of all ages have managed to stamp on the wrong pedal, so I took her out to do some supervised driving. First up, we got her eyes tested - nothing wrong at all, clean bill of health, optician had no issues with driving whatsoever.
Supervised driving was “interesting” initially in her new Yaris. Very hesitant initially, very slow, and making lots of mistakes that were basic driving errors, nothing to do with age at all. Those errors were pointed out and corrected. Lane discipline on roundabouts was hammered home. After about 150 miles of supervised driving, she was fine, perfectly competent, if a little slow.
The age related issues are enlightening. There’s nothing wrong with her eyes, but there is a list of things that she literally can’t do:
- flip from long range vision to close range instantly and back. So looking at the instruments doesn’t really happen. Probably one of the reasons the elderly drive so slowly, they can’t tell with precision how fast they are going, Over the years she has picked up loads of camera tickets for 34 in a 30 and stuff like this
- low sun. Can’t handle it.
- rapid light change (light/dark)
- headlights at night
The other issue with getting old is that your neck doesn’t work as well as it used to. She can’t just “look over her shoulder”. A reversing camera has been a godsend. But there are some junctions where you need the neck of an Owl to do it safely. These are a problem.
So what’s the outcome? A bit like they are suggesting, she’s making sure that she drives when she is capable of doing it. No longer at night, no longer early morning or evening when the sun might be in her eyes. We’ve changed her frequent journeys to avoid junctions that she can’t turn her neck enough for. She has a few regular trips that she knows well, and I’m making sure she gets a bit of supervision to keep an eye on it. Overall the big lesson for me was some analysis of her driving, not the age related issues, but terrible habits that she had got into and thought were “normal”.
I’ve seen similar or worse actually with my mum, she learned to drive in the 60s on a little island with no traffic and minimal road infrastructure like junctions or things like motorways or dual carriageway etc. My mother is 90 and still driving. On her 90th birthday she stuffed her car in a brake/accelerator mix up that caused all of us to re-evaluate whether she should be driving, People of all ages have managed to stamp on the wrong pedal, so I took her out to do some supervised driving. First up, we got her eyes tested - nothing wrong at all, clean bill of health, optician had no issues with driving whatsoever.
Supervised driving was “interesting” initially in her new Yaris. Very hesitant initially, very slow, and making lots of mistakes that were basic driving errors, nothing to do with age at all. Those errors were pointed out and corrected. Lane discipline on roundabouts was hammered home. After about 150 miles of supervised driving, she was fine, perfectly competent, if a little slow.
The age related issues are enlightening. There’s nothing wrong with her eyes, but there is a list of things that she literally can’t do:
- flip from long range vision to close range instantly and back. So looking at the instruments doesn’t really happen. Probably one of the reasons the elderly drive so slowly, they can’t tell with precision how fast they are going, Over the years she has picked up loads of camera tickets for 34 in a 30 and stuff like this
- low sun. Can’t handle it.
- rapid light change (light/dark)
- headlights at night
The other issue with getting old is that your neck doesn’t work as well as it used to. She can’t just “look over her shoulder”. A reversing camera has been a godsend. But there are some junctions where you need the neck of an Owl to do it safely. These are a problem.
So what’s the outcome? A bit like they are suggesting, she’s making sure that she drives when she is capable of doing it. No longer at night, no longer early morning or evening when the sun might be in her eyes. We’ve changed her frequent journeys to avoid junctions that she can’t turn her neck enough for. She has a few regular trips that she knows well, and I’m making sure she gets a bit of supervision to keep an eye on it. Overall the big lesson for me was some analysis of her driving, not the age related issues, but terrible habits that she had got into and thought were “normal”.
She then moved abroad and didn’t drive at all for the vast major of her life. Then my dad died and I took my mum out driving to help her get back into it but now she lives in a city.
Horrendous but quite legal.
StevieBee said:
It's all about the individual.
Bidding farewell today to a mate who was in his 70s and until recently could be regularly found threading his Ferrari 430 though the lanes with the speed, precision and safety that would make a 20 year old look 90.
Several years ago, I watched an old Blower Bentley in a meticulously controlled drift - in the wet - on the slip road from the M23 to the M25. Wonderful stuff. Pulled into Clacket Lane where the Bentley had also pulled with the driver getting out who could not have been a day less than 80.
I can think of a couple of similar examples but agree with ES' point about re-testing.Bidding farewell today to a mate who was in his 70s and until recently could be regularly found threading his Ferrari 430 though the lanes with the speed, precision and safety that would make a 20 year old look 90.
Several years ago, I watched an old Blower Bentley in a meticulously controlled drift - in the wet - on the slip road from the M23 to the M25. Wonderful stuff. Pulled into Clacket Lane where the Bentley had also pulled with the driver getting out who could not have been a day less than 80.
Reaction times do decrease with age..........but, up to a point, observational skills & hazard awareness improve with age. A software based competence test could be developed; it would be interesting exercise to see how effective a 'video game' type competence test, which presented the subject with various hazard scenarios and measured their response to them, would be at flagging up poor / unsafe driving.
The PC /gaming platform type test would enable a relatively low cost way of identifying those who might need to tested more rigorously.
Software based testing could be used to verify the any impairment of drivers following RTA's. Data from Drink drivers, drivers under the influence of drugs, drivers using medicines that make you drowzy could be used to develop & refine the 'competence test' algorithm's along with input from driving instructors, testers, IAM etc.
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