France - Generals warn of civil war, just how bad is it?
Discussion
https://amp.france24.com/en/live-news/20210427-fre...
The French government has threatened to punish active soldiers who signed an open letter by 25 retired generals warning President Emmanuel Macron the country is headed for "civil war".
A number of serving defence force members are believed to have signed the letter published last week in the right-wing Valeurs Actuelles magazine, which warned that "laxist" policies would result in chaos requiring "the intervention of our comrades on active duty in a perilous mission of protection of our civilizational values".
"The hour is grave, France is in peril," the retired generals wrote, adding that failure to act against the "suburban hordes" -- a reference to residents of the mainly immigrant areas that ring French cities -- and other unnamed groups who "scorn our country" will lead to "civil war" and deaths "in the thousands".
The government and left-wing parties strongly condemned the letter, which was published on the 60th anniversary of a failed coup d'etat by generals opposed to France granting independence to Algeria.
It was not immediately clear from the list how many of the signatories, apart from the former generals, had retired from the defence forces and how many were still active members.
Defence Minister Florence Parly warned Monday that those still serving would be punished for flouting a law requiring them to remain politically neutral.
But she also appeared anxious to avoid giving too much importance to their outburst, assuring that the "immense majority" of French troops remained neutral and loyal.
- 'Battle of France' -
The letter comes as candidates begin jockeying for position on immigration, security and the spread of radical Islam in the run-up to the 2022 presidential election.
An Ifop poll published in the Journal du Dimanche newspaper on Sunday showed security and the fight against terrorism among voters' top priorities after a new wave of jihadist attacks, including the October 2020 beheading of a schoolteacher who showed his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.
Far-right leader Marine Le Pen, whom polls show likely to face off against Emmanuel Macron next year in a re-run of the 2017 race, told the retired generals she shared their sentiments and invited them to back her campaign.
"I invite you to join us in taking part in the coming battle, which is the battle of France," she wrote in a response to the letter published in Valeurs Actuelles.
The French government has threatened to punish active soldiers who signed an open letter by 25 retired generals warning President Emmanuel Macron the country is headed for "civil war".
A number of serving defence force members are believed to have signed the letter published last week in the right-wing Valeurs Actuelles magazine, which warned that "laxist" policies would result in chaos requiring "the intervention of our comrades on active duty in a perilous mission of protection of our civilizational values".
"The hour is grave, France is in peril," the retired generals wrote, adding that failure to act against the "suburban hordes" -- a reference to residents of the mainly immigrant areas that ring French cities -- and other unnamed groups who "scorn our country" will lead to "civil war" and deaths "in the thousands".
The government and left-wing parties strongly condemned the letter, which was published on the 60th anniversary of a failed coup d'etat by generals opposed to France granting independence to Algeria.
It was not immediately clear from the list how many of the signatories, apart from the former generals, had retired from the defence forces and how many were still active members.
Defence Minister Florence Parly warned Monday that those still serving would be punished for flouting a law requiring them to remain politically neutral.
But she also appeared anxious to avoid giving too much importance to their outburst, assuring that the "immense majority" of French troops remained neutral and loyal.
- 'Battle of France' -
The letter comes as candidates begin jockeying for position on immigration, security and the spread of radical Islam in the run-up to the 2022 presidential election.
An Ifop poll published in the Journal du Dimanche newspaper on Sunday showed security and the fight against terrorism among voters' top priorities after a new wave of jihadist attacks, including the October 2020 beheading of a schoolteacher who showed his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.
Far-right leader Marine Le Pen, whom polls show likely to face off against Emmanuel Macron next year in a re-run of the 2017 race, told the retired generals she shared their sentiments and invited them to back her campaign.
"I invite you to join us in taking part in the coming battle, which is the battle of France," she wrote in a response to the letter published in Valeurs Actuelles.
It's a long time since the Revolution, France has more recently shown itself a little less than keen to go to fisticuffs since then!!! 
For us all in the West and most Developing countries, life is all a bit too easy, too cosy to go upsetting the Apple cart too much (see what i did there...!! )
There'll be a few yellow vests put on, a few petrol bombs chucked, a few more Gallic shrugs and life will carry on.
For us all in the West and most Developing countries, life is all a bit too easy, too cosy to go upsetting the Apple cart too much (see what i did there...!! )
There'll be a few yellow vests put on, a few petrol bombs chucked, a few more Gallic shrugs and life will carry on.
At the moment, there is a vacuum in the moderate right, both Sarko and Fallon suggesting they are somewhat bent. Currently, Michel Barnier is putting himself forward as their best bet.
If Macron cannot be very confident of a win, i doubt that he will run, he is a vain man. In those circumstances, it is not hard to see a runoff between Le Penn and Hildago and that is where big trouble could start.
I suspect that the Generals were suggesting that the moderate right need to get their act together and not the reality of a proper Civil War.
If Macron cannot be very confident of a win, i doubt that he will run, he is a vain man. In those circumstances, it is not hard to see a runoff between Le Penn and Hildago and that is where big trouble could start.
I suspect that the Generals were suggesting that the moderate right need to get their act together and not the reality of a proper Civil War.
It’s a less than ideal situation.
It’s half scaremongering, half...very sub optimal.
The 1961 Algerian putsch that was referred to as a failed coup d’etat, came 3 yrs after the 58 Algerian inspired effective coup that ended the 4th Republic. That brought back De Gaulle and it was realistically only him stomping about in his WW2 uniform, even though he was a civvy, that stopped it.
Basically French Generals signing open letters and talking of coups and civil wars isn’t good.
It’s half scaremongering, half...very sub optimal.
The 1961 Algerian putsch that was referred to as a failed coup d’etat, came 3 yrs after the 58 Algerian inspired effective coup that ended the 4th Republic. That brought back De Gaulle and it was realistically only him stomping about in his WW2 uniform, even though he was a civvy, that stopped it.
Basically French Generals signing open letters and talking of coups and civil wars isn’t good.
DeejRC said:
It’s a less than ideal situation.
It’s half scaremongering, half...very sub optimal.
The 1961 Algerian putsch that was referred to as a failed coup d’etat, came 3 yrs after the 58 Algerian inspired effective coup that ended the 4th Republic. That brought back De Gaulle and it was realistically only him stomping about in his WW2 uniform, even though he was a civvy, that stopped it.
Basically French Generals signing open letters and talking of coups and civil wars isn’t good.
AIUI It’s half scaremongering, half...very sub optimal.
The 1961 Algerian putsch that was referred to as a failed coup d’etat, came 3 yrs after the 58 Algerian inspired effective coup that ended the 4th Republic. That brought back De Gaulle and it was realistically only him stomping about in his WW2 uniform, even though he was a civvy, that stopped it.
Basically French Generals signing open letters and talking of coups and civil wars isn’t good.
The letter was singed by 1000 serving and former officers, including the former head of the Army
That cannot be seen as insignificant surely ?
The question I suppose is how much support would they have in the military and the public ?
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