Today marks 100 Years since Northern Ireland was formed..
Discussion
Most of us know how contentious this divide has been when Northern Ireland split away from the Republic.. Lives lost on both sides through the troubles and attacks on the UK mainland.. With Brexit creating a border in the Irish Sea, the country is close to troubled times again and possibly a vote on it becoming a singular republic once again.. I'm not claiming to have the greatest understanding of this piece of history, but on this anniversary I'm just hoping the tentative peace will remain so...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-568...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-568...
At one time the province was just to consist of the four protestant dominated counties, but it was
considered too small to subsist and so NI was made up of 6 counties.
I wonder had they went with the original set up the troubled future might not have happened.
It had been hoped that NI would be a temporary stepping stone to an All Ireland state a few years later,
but we as all know now, underestimating the determination of the Ulster-Scot protestants is a foolhardy
stance.
considered too small to subsist and so NI was made up of 6 counties.
I wonder had they went with the original set up the troubled future might not have happened.
It had been hoped that NI would be a temporary stepping stone to an All Ireland state a few years later,
but we as all know now, underestimating the determination of the Ulster-Scot protestants is a foolhardy
stance.
Eric Mc said:
Northern Ireland never split away from the Republic of Ireland. Two new Irish states were created in 1921, the Irish Free State and Northern Ireland. The Irish Free State only became the Republic of Ireland in 1949.
Fine pedantry there Eric, almost ulster unionist standard. 
I'm with Eric on this.
What people forget is that, after the Partition came the Irish Civil War (a particilarly bloody conflict) which resulted in the death of Michael Collins.
People (Prods in Norn Iron) also forget thet Northern Ireland is not 'Ulster' - Northern Ireland is 6 Counties, 3 of the Counties of Ulster, that is to say: Cavan, Donegal, and Monaghan, are in the Republic.
What people forget is that, after the Partition came the Irish Civil War (a particilarly bloody conflict) which resulted in the death of Michael Collins.
People (Prods in Norn Iron) also forget thet Northern Ireland is not 'Ulster' - Northern Ireland is 6 Counties, 3 of the Counties of Ulster, that is to say: Cavan, Donegal, and Monaghan, are in the Republic.
citizensm1th said:
Eric Mc said:
citizensm1th said:
Fine pedantry there Eric, almost ulster unionist standard.
I think “historical accuracy” is a better description.Sorry that I may have overburdened you with some knowledge. It wasn't my intention to upset you.
LP12 said:
I'm with Eric on this.
What people forget is that, after the Partition came the Irish Civil War (a particilarly bloody conflict) which resulted in the death of Michael Collins.
People (Prods in Norn Iron) also forget thet Northern Ireland is not 'Ulster' - Northern Ireland is 6 Counties, 3 of the Counties of Ulster, that is to say: Cavan, Donegal, and Monaghan, are in the Republic.
Careful now - that's a bit too much information for some people. They find it difficult to cope with accurate facts.What people forget is that, after the Partition came the Irish Civil War (a particilarly bloody conflict) which resulted in the death of Michael Collins.
People (Prods in Norn Iron) also forget thet Northern Ireland is not 'Ulster' - Northern Ireland is 6 Counties, 3 of the Counties of Ulster, that is to say: Cavan, Donegal, and Monaghan, are in the Republic.
The interesting thing is how "low key" the commemorations are. Neither part of Ireland is particularly keen to mark this anniversary.
Derek Smith said:
There is, of course, no such thing as historical accuracy. It's the only fact that history teaches us.
Not really true. For example, it was inaccurate to state that Northern Ireland split from the Republic of Ireland. That is an indisputable fact.The significance and interpretation of historical events is where variations in "accuracy" or opinion will occur.
Tom Logan said:
If ever a valid reason was needed to ban religious zealotry it's right there in the island of Ireland.
Bigots on both sides.
And if you think that is the reason for "the troubles" you need to re-read (or even just read) a bit more about the history.Bigots on both sides.
Of course, there is a whole other thread on that topic. This thread is about the 100th anniversary of the creation of the two Irish states.
BOR said:
Well England, was it all worth it ?
"worth it" in what respect do you mean?I've never understood if the Ireland conflicts were about religion or whether they were about Ireland having a land border within it, in which the Irish government did not have jurisdiction of on the northern side?
Is it a case of one religious branch of christianity hating another brand of christianity (due to a few differences in how they interpret historical scriptures), or is it about a group of people who identify as being south of the border hating a group of people who identify as being north of the border?
Either way I think what ever the hate is, it should have stayed with the original generation of people who started it. To see this hate being passed down through the generations purely because their parent's continued this hate is just a sad reflection of immature people who have been indoctrinated to live in a stagnant world of their forbearers.
(edit to add that the above comments are aimed at those who continue the violence and the meaningless willy waving rhetoric that perpetrates the conflict, as I am lead to believe there are plenty otherwise who have been more than happy to move on and try to make N.Ireland a nice and peaceful place to live)
Edited by GroundZero on Tuesday 4th May 08:52
BOR said:
Well England, was it all worth it ?
Was what all worth it? And what has England (specifically) got to do with the formation of Northern Ireland? I agree with Eric MC, the Irish 'problem' is a complicated issue, the GFA was a miracle of diplomacy based on how intractable the differences between the various factions were at the time it was first drawn up.
GroundZero said:
"worth it" in what respect do you mean?
I've never understood if the Ireland conflicts were about religion or whether they were about Ireland having a land border within it, in which the Irish government did not have jurisdiction of on the northern side?
Is it a case of one religious branch of christianity hating another brand of christianity (due to a few differences in how they interpret historical scriptures), or is it about a group of people who identify as being south of the border hating a group of people who identify as being north of the border?
Either way I think what ever the hate is, it should have stayed with the original generation of people who started it. To see this hate being passed down through the generations purely because their parent's continued this hate is just a sad reflection of immature people who have been indoctrinated to live in a stagnant world of their forbearers.
(edit to add that the above comments are aimed at those who continue the violence and the meaningless willy waving rhetoric that perpetrates the conflict, as I am lead to believe there are plenty otherwise who have been more than happy to move on and try to make N.Ireland a nice and peaceful place to live)
Pretty much none of the above.I've never understood if the Ireland conflicts were about religion or whether they were about Ireland having a land border within it, in which the Irish government did not have jurisdiction of on the northern side?
Is it a case of one religious branch of christianity hating another brand of christianity (due to a few differences in how they interpret historical scriptures), or is it about a group of people who identify as being south of the border hating a group of people who identify as being north of the border?
Either way I think what ever the hate is, it should have stayed with the original generation of people who started it. To see this hate being passed down through the generations purely because their parent's continued this hate is just a sad reflection of immature people who have been indoctrinated to live in a stagnant world of their forbearers.
(edit to add that the above comments are aimed at those who continue the violence and the meaningless willy waving rhetoric that perpetrates the conflict, as I am lead to believe there are plenty otherwise who have been more than happy to move on and try to make N.Ireland a nice and peaceful place to live)
Edited by GroundZero on Tuesday 4th May 08:52
The "Irish Problem" can be dated back over 800 years, long before there was any sort of "border" or "religious divide" as we know it today.
1169 is the year in which the English king (and it was England/Wales, not Scotland) decided to have an involvement in how Ireland was "managed". Essentially, it is the moment when English/Welsh Normans started "meddling" in the power and territorial disputes that had always existed on the island of Ireland.
And, like with the Norman invasion of England and Wales, it wasn't long before most of Ireland was subdued - as much by treaties with, and bribery of, local Gaelic chieftains as by conquest.
At this stage, religion had nothing to do with any of this because everybody in north western Europe was ostensibly Catholic. It was a power and influence - (and economics, of course) game.
The religious element didn't really creep in until around 300 years later when the English king (Henry VIII) decided to break with Rome which caused all sorts of problems for the influential families (i.e. the Dukes, Earls, Barons etc) of both England and Ireland as they had to get off the fence and decide who's side they were on.
Most of the so called "Irish Religious Differences" disputes that afflicted Ireland for the next few hundred years were far more to do with struggles for the British crown than disputes between locals.
LP12 said:
People (Prods in Norn Iron) also forget thet Northern Ireland is not 'Ulster' - Northern Ireland is 6 Counties, 3 of the Counties of Ulster, that is to say: Cavan, Donegal, and Monaghan, are in the Republic.
Indeed. My great-great-grandfather was an Ulsterman (I'm assuming he was protestant, as his name was Scots sounding and his descendents were/are protestant) from Monaghan and British.As an aside, he joined the British army, along with many others from his area (probably a good, poverty/famine avoiding, career move at the time), and eventually fought in the Crimea, where he was injured and survived the hospitals -and highly decorated. He remained employed by the British army in various parts of the UK throughout his life, ending up in Liverpool,
Had he been a generation or two later, I could have applied for an EU passport....
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