UK/Australia Trade deal
Discussion
Did search but couldn't find anything about this...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57198607
What does PH think about this?
It does seem to be the whole point of Brexit so I figure probably a good shout, actually quite surprised we're dragging it in over 15 years.
Is there anything in the claims that Australian beef and lamb is somehow sub-standard to UK reared meat though? It seems to have echoes of the hysteria about chlorine washed chicken. If an Australian farmer can raise cattle, and then sell the beef to a country on the other side of the world for a lower price than the domestic farmers can, perhaps that tells us we need to look at our production methods? Or are their production methods horrendous?
Importantly, are there are any good cars in Oz that this may help make more affordable?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57198607
What does PH think about this?
It does seem to be the whole point of Brexit so I figure probably a good shout, actually quite surprised we're dragging it in over 15 years.
Is there anything in the claims that Australian beef and lamb is somehow sub-standard to UK reared meat though? It seems to have echoes of the hysteria about chlorine washed chicken. If an Australian farmer can raise cattle, and then sell the beef to a country on the other side of the world for a lower price than the domestic farmers can, perhaps that tells us we need to look at our production methods? Or are their production methods horrendous?
Importantly, are there are any good cars in Oz that this may help make more affordable?
I'm guessing the price point for beef from Australia is down to economies of scale as much as anything, no idea about quality and hormone enhancement etc. But when cattle stations are measured by the sq KM and the three biggest top 15000 sq KM there must be one hell of a lot of cows! Largest has 23,677 sq KM's. Interestingly the largest by land mass is not the largest by number of animals, clearly the quality of land and access to water plays a a part.
Edited by W124Bob on Friday 21st May 09:15
Having seen a cattle station in Queensland, there is very little decent quality pasture land so they use steroid supplementation to help build muscle mass. Some body builders also use the same type of steroids as used on cattle. Basically a modified version of testosterone. Really good quality meat though, very tasty.
I also hope cost of importing parts for my car would come down.
I also hope cost of importing parts for my car would come down.
, even the ‘roo.Mulesing as mentioned for sheep. Very poor chicken standards - battery farming, chlorination, etc commonplace. Sow stalls for pregnant pigs that are too small to turn around in. Growth hormones used for beef cattle. Very long journey times allowed for live animals, and they allow live exports too.
All part of the difficult choices to make over where we get food from. The government apparently wants us to be a leader in animal welfare, and to improve environment factors (food miles, co2 footprint of farming, etc) too. It's hard to square that with sourcing your meat (meat that we produce here) from the other side of the world, from a place with much poorer standards.
All part of the difficult choices to make over where we get food from. The government apparently wants us to be a leader in animal welfare, and to improve environment factors (food miles, co2 footprint of farming, etc) too. It's hard to square that with sourcing your meat (meat that we produce here) from the other side of the world, from a place with much poorer standards.
W124Bob said:
I'm guessing the price point for beef from Australia is down to economies of scale as much as anything, no idea about quality and hormone enhancement etc. But when cattle stations are measured by the sq KM and the three biggest top 15000 sq KM there must be one hell of a lot of cows! Largest has 23,677 sq KM's. Interestingly the largest by land mass is not the largest by number of animals, clearly the quality of land and access to water plays a a part.
Are you serious? Do you think 1 sq km of Australian scrub can support the same number of cattle as prime English pastureland.......?Edited by W124Bob on Friday 21st May 09:15
I heard on R4 Farming program an Australian agri-expert saying that meat production in Australia may have passed its peak due to lack of water and usable grazing, and most of their production is destined for Asia where huge demand means higher prices are available to producers than the UK market will sustain.
Obviously being on the BBC you can't necessarily take the story at face value,
but it sounded credible to me.
Obviously being on the BBC you can't necessarily take the story at face value,
but it sounded credible to me. Dr Jekyll said:
In what way is our end the wrong end?
Predicted the UK will have a huge trade deficit out of it.On a purely moral standpoint, how can the government be hitting us over the head with going green, carbon neutral, etc on one hand then wanting a trade deal that'll see us transporting meat from the other side of the world. It just doesn't stack up.
All interesting points, although I do wonder how much meat we actually will import from Oz, given that as stated above, their production is more or less maxed out already and they send most of their exports to Asia which is closer and will pay a higher price...
I'd like to see more of their wine make it over here for sure.
I'd like to see more of their wine make it over here for sure.
Escy said:
Predicted the UK will have a huge trade deficit out of it.
With Australia perhaps, as a result of getting cheaper meat, why is that bad? Escy said:
On a purely moral standpoint, how can the government be hitting us over the head with going green, carbon neutral, etc on one hand then wanting a trade deal that'll see us transporting meat from the other side of the world. It just doesn't stack up.
They shouldn't be hitting us over the head with carbon neutral nonsense. In any case being to source goods from anywhere in the world gives us a chance to use the most efficient producers. If 'going green' is about making the best use of resources rather than enforcing miserableism for it's own sake, that should be what matters.As noted above Australian animal welfare standards are far far below what would be permitted in this country.
Another issue is if we accept the principle that we can import food that it would be illegal to produce here, it puts us in a far weaker position when negotiating with the USA - and I really don’t think we should be importing their food.
Post Brexit the government is considering banning live animal exports and imports of foie gras and fur.
It would be ridiculous to “cancel this out” by importing food from countries with animal “welfare” standards many would consider unacceptable
Another issue is if we accept the principle that we can import food that it would be illegal to produce here, it puts us in a far weaker position when negotiating with the USA - and I really don’t think we should be importing their food.
Post Brexit the government is considering banning live animal exports and imports of foie gras and fur.
It would be ridiculous to “cancel this out” by importing food from countries with animal “welfare” standards many would consider unacceptable
MonkeyMatt said:
I can't get my head around why exporting meat halfway round the world is a good idea. The sooner the world stops producing meat on an industrial scale! meet imports should be taxed to high heaven.
Australia is an expert nation in huge overland movement of livestock and livestock sea shipping into Asia, Indian sub continent Middle East.And in the UK we often quibble about going 100 miles to the next slaughterhouse.
Many of the practices used that are permitted in the Aussie and Asian markets block their ability to be imported here. Tariffs are separate to standards.
British farmers have a whole litany of competitive advantages.
It's amusing to see some posters who've spent years supporting not only tariff free, but customs free trade with much closer meat producers that also have economies of scale and reduced welfare practices now decrying a trade deal with a country half the world away based upon lesser competitive levelling...
If, as stated, it's a gateway to joining the TPP, then there's huge opportunities for a whole spectrum of British industry.
Oh, and let's not forget that if it is indeed cheaper than UK produce, despite all the remaining barriers and costs that I'll farmers don't have - then that's a reduction in food bills which has the biggest beneficial impact on the poorest in our society, who typically spend 14% of their income on food...
British farmers have a whole litany of competitive advantages.
It's amusing to see some posters who've spent years supporting not only tariff free, but customs free trade with much closer meat producers that also have economies of scale and reduced welfare practices now decrying a trade deal with a country half the world away based upon lesser competitive levelling...
If, as stated, it's a gateway to joining the TPP, then there's huge opportunities for a whole spectrum of British industry.
Oh, and let's not forget that if it is indeed cheaper than UK produce, despite all the remaining barriers and costs that I'll farmers don't have - then that's a reduction in food bills which has the biggest beneficial impact on the poorest in our society, who typically spend 14% of their income on food...
Sway said:
Oh, and let's not forget that if it is indeed cheaper than UK produce, despite all the remaining barriers and costs that I'll farmers don't have - then that's a reduction in food bills which has the biggest beneficial impact on the poorest in our society, who typically spend 14% of their income on food...
I'm all for continuous improvement, but UK food prices are second lowest as proportion of income of all developed nations, are they not?https://www.ft.com/content/cdd62792-0e85-11e9-acdc...
V88Dicky said:
This has to be good news for our domestic car producers surely? The last Australian made cars rolled of the Holden production line in 2017 I think.
Maybe sourcing parts for my Monaro will become a little bit less expensive
Australians like Japanese or American cars as Germans are so hideously overpriced there. No one wants a Jag or Lamd Rover over there. Maybe sourcing parts for my Monaro will become a little bit less expensive
Pre-existing FTAs with Japan and the US on Oz will give the UKs failing car industry no advantage.
Australia is a primary producer, specifically minerals, energy and agriculture so they will be pushing to export primarily Agri products as we have no demand for iron ore and our own oil industry.
The UK is a service based economy that produces a few exports that are quite advanced (I.E. things you cant make in India or China). So they're already buying all the turbines ND aircraft parts they want from the UK and aren't interested in banking or insurance services.
Any FTA is going to be so lopsided it will be funny (Australia being quite familiar with lopsided FTAs thanks to the US shafting them). However the Tories are so desperate to say they got something out of Brexit they simply don't care how bad the agreement is as long as they get it.
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