The breakup of the Union. If you're English, would you...

[Kermit power]

Evening all,

My wife and I have just been discussing this over dinner... Yeah for romance!!!

We hear all the time about opinion polls for Scottish independence taken in Scotland, but nobody ever seems to poll the English as far as I'm aware, so if you're English, how would Scottish (or Welsh) independence make you feel?

Would you feel passionate either way?

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo]

You can play romantic role playing later. You as Drakeford and her as Sturgeon

[mrporsche]

I would be supportive of it.

They appear to be a drain, reasonable amounts of their population want to be independent.

Let them go

[Sahjahd]

Organise street parties.

[nails1979]

Whilst I would be glad to be rid of the Scots, NI and Welsh that positively hate us, I don't believe they all do and they deserve our support, it would make it harder for us to travel and we would have to pick up the pieces afterwards.
I reckon NI could make a decent go of it joining with Ireland and would already have the currency etc in place if the EU allowed it. But Wales and Scotland would fall off a cliff. Together we are stronger, we need less devolution and duplicating of jobs, and focus on what each part can bring to the table.

[grumbledoak]

I don't think national democracies would really represent the people any more than the current Westminster marionette show does, but I can see the attraction of sovereignty. Let them have it if they want it.

Hell, let the English vote on it

[iwantagta]

I think all nations have the right to self determination.
I think the Union should survive.

I think Scotland may vote for independence. I think the SNP are lying hypocritical shysters of the highest order. Saying leaving Europe is a political and financial disaster for the UK but breaking away from the Union will be a piece of piss is clearly bks. If they do decide to leave then so be it, i think we will both be weaker.

Wales are so massively reliant on England financially Plaid Cymru is living in Narnia. I think it would be fair if regions that vote for them get to experience the amount of cash they would have to spend post devolution.

N Ireland - as above it could make a fair go of it alone. However i fear the level of violence that would take place.

[CeramicMX5ND2]

If the Scots went the English could get their own devolved parliament, as we are the only part of the union not to have one.....!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44208859

[dbdb]

It seems rather short-sighted to me to be indifferent to the breakup of the union if you're English. The country would be much diminished.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

I'm English, as long as we have enough teabags, I don't care.

[Esceptico]

Poll doesn’t give enough options. I am somewhere between indifferent and hating it ie not for it but also wouldn’t be losing too much sleep if the Scots or others decided to leave. Main issue is that it would cause a lot of problems in the short term and surely we have enough on our plate with Covid and Brexit.

Nationalism seems odd to me. Like religion. Why should I feel positively towards strangers because they were born and/or live within some often arbitrary geographic boundary, even though I will share few fundamental values with many of them and would likely dislike lots if I knew them personally? Based on experience at work I would and do feel closer to people of similar backgrounds and interests, whichever part of the globe they come from, than random Brits/English.

[anonymous-user]

mrporsche said:

I would be supportive of it.

They appear to be a drain, reasonable amounts of their population want to be independent.

Let them go

I'm not an expert, but I would suggest that Scotland's geopolitical importance to the UK is considerable; even if it is a 'drain' economically at this precise point in time.

EU countries have moved from 'drains' to 'contributors' over time too, as I think is the case for the Netherlands. Even Italy is apparently a net contributor to the EU if you sum it up over a long enough time. So it may be short-sighted to be against the union on purely economic grounds.

[roger.mellie]

Not English so I won’t vote. But slightly tipsy after a good night with friends view is we’d respect the English view. As long as you realise you can’t light the match and walk away from your (not your personally) responsibilities.

More serious point being we’ve been integrated countries for too long to blame the fecklessness of regions on their inability to be better. Centralisation is the way the world works. So don’t moan when your lamped with a big bill getting rid of the regions you don’t want .

[Stigproducts]

Get rid of the whinging, ungrateful, parasites; would be great.

It would be brilliant to watch from (enhanced, as England would not have to subsidize Scotland) luxury as reality sets in and the Scots have to pay their own way and realize the foolishness of what they chose. Slowly they would wither into a bitter 3rd world drug infested, poverty stricken mess.

However, back in the real world, any break up would be extremely messy, very expensive and impossible to achieve with any sense of satisfaction for anyone.
The Scots love to fantasize about "Freedom" and sticking it to those in England who, they think, look down on them (massive inferiority complex wonder why....) but as when they had a referendum about this, their true inbuilt sense of thrift would kick in and they would see sense.

I say this as someone who is half Scottish, has tons of Scottish family, lived in Scotland for 5 years and loves the place.

Stop showing Braveheart- it's not a documentary people, and get on with being successful, if you possibly can. Prove me wrong

Don't get me started on the welsh, I used to have to work with that lot.

[johnboy1975]

nails1979 said:

Whilst I would be glad to be rid of the Scots, NI and Welsh that positively hate us, I don't believe they all do and they deserve our support, it would make it harder for us to travel and we would have to pick up the pieces afterwards.
I reckon NI could make a decent go of it joining with Ireland and would already have the currency etc in place if the EU allowed it. But Wales and Scotland would fall off a cliff. Together we are stronger, we need less devolution and duplicating of jobs, and focus on what each part can bring to the table.

This. If Scotland want to put a fully costed detailed plan together (including currency) then it would perhaps be something to consider (to everyone's detriment but such is life). At the moment its just Braveheart on stilts, selling the impossible dream. Yorkshire will be next. Oh.....

Eta
Voted Hate it, because I think we (the English) will end up picking up the tab in one form or another and/or watch the equivalent of the Irish Potato famine at even closer range. (Which wouldn't happen, at that point they'd all travel south and become refugees).

Oh, and I quite like the Union Jack

Edited by johnboy1975 on Sunday 23 May 05:03

[roger.mellie]

johnboy1975 said:

Eta
Voted Hate it, because I think we (the English) will end up picking up the tab in one form or another and/or watch the equivalent of the Irish Potato famine at even closer range. (Which wouldn't happen, at that point they'd all travel south and become refugees).

Oh, and I quite like the Union Jack

Edited by johnboy1975 on Sunday 23 May 05:03

Nothing like an uneducated superiority complex but it is PH I suppose. Some of you are complaining about cars not having chokes any more.

Irish potato famine? Get educated, which bit of the Irish potato famines should the Irish blame themselves for whilst still being a net exporter of food?

Or maybe imperialist policies might be a teensy weensy bit more to blame and were also screwing many English at the time.

Problem with that observation is you’re likely to get annoyed in defence when you’d nothing to do with it due to your unquestioning faith to a tattered flag.

Edited by roger.mellie on Sunday 23 May 05:38

[JagLover]

dbdb said:

It seems rather short-sighted to me to be indifferent to the breakup of the union if you're English. The country would be much diminished.

Well I think it would be a bad thing but not strongly, so voted don't care.

The days of the UK as a great power are long gone so it doesn't really matter that much, IMO, if we are diminished, which we would be. I would like the Scots to stay in the union, due to shared history and strategic considerations, but, if they wish to leave that is up to them. Perhaps without the hated English to blame for everything they will make a go of it, because it will force them to focus on real issues and not mostly contrived grievances.

[Pit Pony]

Can the Engiah vote for independence?

I find it weird. Scottish independence means they split from NI and Wales as well as England.
We ( all citizens of the UK ) should all be given a chance to vote.

Should the union be split up?

The pass mark should be at 80%.

Either we all go out separate ways or we all stay together.

Personally as a Northerner, I think that London and the South East should be holding a vote to see if they'd like to go it alone.

[Boom78]

I’m Welsh so I won’t vote. I’d be gutted if somehow our nats managed to drag us to independence but luckily for us it will never happen as it’s just not that important to us. I do think we’re stronger together and proud we’ve played our part for the last 1000 years, created royal dynasties and added cultural and historic value to the union etc. Many of us have English family past and present, English employers and colleagues. We actually all get on just fine. I suspect that’s the case with Scotland and all of Ireland too. Take away the politicians talking rubbish and there wouldn’t be friction.


I also like our flag

[Johnnytheboy]

I'd be annoyed at the break up of the union but pleased at the fact the Tories would be in power for a very long time.