Global tax deal
Discussion
Doesn't seem to be a thread here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
I think a tax on profits that a company makes is a really bad idea.
Every single sell to the public - 20% is tax
Every employee you take on - 20-40% of their income ( which you have to pay for ) - is tax
Employee NI - is tax
Employer NI - is tax.
Everything the employee wishes to purchase - is 20% tax
Generally - the biggest shareholders in a company are the pension funds, which is joe public's money to secure their retirement.
The less that people are reliant on the state is a good thing.
Every single sell to the public - 20% is tax
Every employee you take on - 20-40% of their income ( which you have to pay for ) - is tax
Employee NI - is tax
Employer NI - is tax.
Everything the employee wishes to purchase - is 20% tax
Generally - the biggest shareholders in a company are the pension funds, which is joe public's money to secure their retirement.
The less that people are reliant on the state is a good thing.
MDMetal said:
Doesn't seem to be a thread here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
You seem to lack basic understanding of what goverments do and why governments levy taxes.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
Goverments have a specific, democratic and collective role in society, unlike businesses.
And whether goverments are bad at creating systems without loopholes or company's (and their tax advisors) are good at exploiting loopholes is irrelevant and secondary at best. Company's (and individuals) should pay their fair share based on a democratic and collective basis.
Edited by DeltonaS on Saturday 5th June 00:14
633Squadron said:
I think a tax on profits that a company makes is a really bad idea.
Every single sell to the public - 20% is tax
Every employee you take on - 20-40% of their income ( which you have to pay for ) - is tax
Employee NI - is tax
Employer NI - is tax.
Everything the employee wishes to purchase - is 20% tax
Generally - the biggest shareholders in a company are the pension funds, which is joe public's money to secure their retirement.
The less that people are reliant on the state is a good thing.
Hooah. Sounds great soldier.Every single sell to the public - 20% is tax
Every employee you take on - 20-40% of their income ( which you have to pay for ) - is tax
Employee NI - is tax
Employer NI - is tax.
Everything the employee wishes to purchase - is 20% tax
Generally - the biggest shareholders in a company are the pension funds, which is joe public's money to secure their retirement.
The less that people are reliant on the state is a good thing.
You know what the biggest goverment expenses in the Western world are ?
Healthcare, education and social security.
So who's going to pay for 2 new British aircraft carriers if the Gov. can't even spend f
k all on healthcare ?
Companies don’t “pay” tax. Companies are legal entities but don’t otherwise exist. Only people suffer taxes.
If companies didn’t pay taxes then there would be additional profits. These could be reinvested into the business or paid out to employees as higher wages or a benefit to consumers as cheaper prices or a higher return to investors in the company (debt and equity holders). Perhaps a mix of all those. Uncertain whether that would lead to more or less tax take. Almost certainly less for countries that has more foreign companies operating in its territory than the reverse.
The issue for governments is that without corporation tax they can’t control whether they get a cut of the tax cake or even control the size of the cake (if the benefit of no tax reduces prices then indirect taxes would go down not up).
If companies didn’t pay taxes then there would be additional profits. These could be reinvested into the business or paid out to employees as higher wages or a benefit to consumers as cheaper prices or a higher return to investors in the company (debt and equity holders). Perhaps a mix of all those. Uncertain whether that would lead to more or less tax take. Almost certainly less for countries that has more foreign companies operating in its territory than the reverse.
The issue for governments is that without corporation tax they can’t control whether they get a cut of the tax cake or even control the size of the cake (if the benefit of no tax reduces prices then indirect taxes would go down not up).
Esceptico said:
Companies don’t “pay” tax. Companies are legal entities but don’t otherwise exist. Only people suffer taxes.
https://www.gov.uk/corporation-taxCompanies pay taxes.
Esceptico said:
The issue is that without corporation tax they can’t control whether they get a cut of the tax cake or even control the size of the cake (if the benefit of no tax reduces prices then indirect taxes would go down not up).
No, the issue is that country's compete o.a. on the level of corporation tax to attract businesses, investments and jobs. Plus companies use tax havens, tax rulings and tax treaties to avoid paying taxes.DeltonaS said:
MDMetal said:
Doesn't seem to be a thread here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
You seem to lack basic understanding of what goverments do and why governments levy taxes.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
Goverments have a specific, democratic and collective role in society, unlike businesses.
And whether goverments are bad at creating systems without loopholes or company's (and their tax advisors) are good at exploiting loopholes is irrelevant and secondary at best. Company's (and individuals) should pay their fair share based on a democratic and collective basis.
Edited by DeltonaS on Saturday 5th June 00:14
What's interesting is how you've said that governments have a democratic role which while true hides the real issue. I'm free to engage or not with any company I wish, I'm not bound to buy my food from a certain shop nor buy certain products or services. While I do have to purchase certain items I'm entirely free to decide who from. The same is not true of governments, I can mearly vote every so often but I get what I'm given. I cannot choose those in power not can I realistically for my own government as I could with a Buisness. A Buisness has to recruit employees it has competition and therefore strives for improvement, a government does not.
There are a finite set of countries a Buisness can operate or base itself in by removing tax as a competitive tool you rob smaller less developed countries of the ability to compete. If Microsoft and apple should not be able to collude over prices of software then it seems only fair that the countries of the world shouldn't collude over tax. If a country offers Amazon the chance to pay zero tax then that's perfectly fair, what's not fair is for Amazon to illegally avoid paying taxes in other countries when they don't fancy it.
Companies and governments are different sides of the same coin.
DeltonaS said:
633Squadron said:
I think a tax on profits that a company makes is a really bad idea.
Every single sell to the public - 20% is tax
Every employee you take on - 20-40% of their income ( which you have to pay for ) - is tax
Employee NI - is tax
Employer NI - is tax.
Everything the employee wishes to purchase - is 20% tax
Generally - the biggest shareholders in a company are the pension funds, which is joe public's money to secure their retirement.
The less that people are reliant on the state is a good thing.
Hooah. Sounds great soldier.Every single sell to the public - 20% is tax
Every employee you take on - 20-40% of their income ( which you have to pay for ) - is tax
Employee NI - is tax
Employer NI - is tax.
Everything the employee wishes to purchase - is 20% tax
Generally - the biggest shareholders in a company are the pension funds, which is joe public's money to secure their retirement.
The less that people are reliant on the state is a good thing.
You know what the biggest goverment expenses in the Western world are ?
Healthcare, education and social security.
So who's going to pay for 2 new British aircraft carriers if the Gov. can't even spend f
k all on healthcare ?But to then tax the company that employs people etc etc - currently 19% on profits soon to be 23-25% a tax of their profit - is pretty much an incentive for the company not to make a profit at all.
eg. Register a brand name in a 0% tax friendly country. And then licence that brand name to your UK company to ensure that every transaction has royalty fee to make sure that your company makes a loss or minimal profit = jack s
t for the treasury.It is ironic that the lower the corporation tax is - the more revenue that is generated for the treasury.
Over to you.
633Squadron said:
Yes - I do.
But to then tax the company that employs people etc etc - currently 19% on profits soon to be 23-25% a tax of their profit - is pretty much an incentive for the company not to make a profit at all.
eg. Register a brand name in a 0% tax friendly country. And then licence that brand name to your UK company to ensure that every transaction has royalty fee to make sure that your company makes a loss or minimal profit = jack st for the treasury.
It is ironic that the lower the corporation tax is - the more revenue that is generated for the treasury.
Over to you.
And that's the issue right, you want to motivate Buisness to grow, to pay good wages, even to inovate in their sector. If your goal is to wipe out most Buisness what cars are we driving, whose food do we buy and what houses are we living in? Literally every aspect of our lives is provided buy a Buisness, the NHS doesn't build its own beds or hospitals...But to then tax the company that employs people etc etc - currently 19% on profits soon to be 23-25% a tax of their profit - is pretty much an incentive for the company not to make a profit at all.
eg. Register a brand name in a 0% tax friendly country. And then licence that brand name to your UK company to ensure that every transaction has royalty fee to make sure that your company makes a loss or minimal profit = jack s
t for the treasury.It is ironic that the lower the corporation tax is - the more revenue that is generated for the treasury.
Over to you.
rscott said:
Terminator X said:
1% or 15% it won't matter to the Big Boys as they more or less pay zero anyway. It will just hurt the millions of SME's as usual.
TX.
The whole point of this discussion is around a global tax agreements so there won't be the same opportunities for avoiding tax..TX.
TX.
633Squadron said:
Yes - I do.
But to then tax the company that employs people etc etc - currently 19% on profits soon to be 23-25% a tax of their profit - is pretty much an incentive for the company not to make a profit at all.
eg. Register a brand name in a 0% tax friendly country. And then licence that brand name to your UK company to ensure that every transaction has royalty fee to make sure that your company makes a loss or minimal profit = jack st for the treasury.
It is ironic that the lower the corporation tax is - the more revenue that is generated for the treasury.
Over to you.
Just because everyone pays taxes doesn’t make everyone an expert on taxes. But to then tax the company that employs people etc etc - currently 19% on profits soon to be 23-25% a tax of their profit - is pretty much an incentive for the company not to make a profit at all.
eg. Register a brand name in a 0% tax friendly country. And then licence that brand name to your UK company to ensure that every transaction has royalty fee to make sure that your company makes a loss or minimal profit = jack s
t for the treasury.It is ironic that the lower the corporation tax is - the more revenue that is generated for the treasury.
Over to you.
Please provide evidence that lowering corporation taxes generates more taxes.
Your example of simply registering a brand in a tax haven is at least 20 years out of date. Countries where the royalties are paid will not give a tax deduction unless the transfer pricing is accepted. To do so the risks and key people functions would need to be in the tax haven.
The OECD have been working on countering tax evasion for some time under the Base Erosion and Profit Shifting project. The minimum tax rate is just part of BEPS 2.0.
DeltonaS said:
MDMetal said:
Doesn't seem to be a thread here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
You seem to lack basic understanding of what goverments do and why governments levy taxes.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57349803
Not sure where I stand, comments that a tax rate of x % could pay for covid don't sit well as it implies some sort of responsibility, yes big tech has done well but being better at responding to these things than government's hardly seems like you should be punished.
Also in the grand scheme of things if companies are banned from working together to set prices why can government's work together to set taxes?
That's not to say I think companies should illegally evade paying taxes. However governments aren't great at creating systems without loopholes...
Goverments have a specific, democratic and collective role in society, unlike businesses.
And whether goverments are bad at creating systems without loopholes or company's (and their tax advisors) are good at exploiting loopholes is irrelevant and secondary at best. Company's (and individuals) should pay their fair share based on a democratic and collective basis.
Edited by DeltonaS on Saturday 5th June 00:14
We have a high inheritance tax here, hence I'm off to Portugal where it's zero (and warm!). Should the UK put pressure on Portugal to make them tax me more?
something should be done! I was born and raised in Ireland. It‘s a small island in the Atlantic, the weather is crap.
I‘ve now lived in Germany for a while. Germans like to tell me that the Irish corporate tax rate is too , and therefore unfair. I respond by saying the geographic position of Germany is too good, and that’s also unfair.
That’s usually the end of the discussion.
I‘ve now lived in Germany for a while. Germans like to tell me that the Irish corporate tax rate is too , and therefore unfair. I respond by saying the geographic position of Germany is too good, and that’s also unfair.
That’s usually the end of the discussion.
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