Flooding in Europe. 100+ dead, 100s more missing.
Discussion
I find it bizarre that whilst we're reporting this year on two massively extreme weather events that are quite probably linked to climate change (extreme heat in the Pacific NW and this flooding) we're still whining about the fact that people can't fly to Ibiza or wherever. Or elsewhere about a movement away from the internal combustion engine.
The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
PeteinSQ said:
I find it bizarre that whilst we're reporting this year on two massively extreme weather events that are quite probably linked to climate change (extreme heat in the Pacific NW and this flooding) we're still whining about the fact that people can't fly to Ibiza or wherever. Or elsewhere about a movement away from the internal combustion engine.
The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
It does strike me as ironic that Germany are Europe's biggest burners of lignite in their power stations - I wonder if this might make them reconsider that policy?The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
My thoughts go out to those affected, it does look horrendous and makes our UK flood events seem fairly tame in comparison
PeteinSQ said:
I find it bizarre that whilst we're reporting this year on two massively extreme weather events that are quite probably linked to climate change (extreme heat in the Pacific NW and this flooding) we're still whining about the fact that people can't fly to Ibiza or wherever. Or elsewhere about a movement away from the internal combustion engine.
The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
Or blaming it on climate is just a modern alternative to blaming it on God. Ultimately it tracks back to a jet stream wobble and no one in the climate sciences was proposing any warming related causal link, just that it 'might' be climate change related. Right now it's 'weather'.The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
As it was it rained a lot and people in flood zones, living on valley floors between steep sides, on river bends and in other places you'd expect to be at risk of flooding got flooded as the rivers tried taking the direct route. It happens periodically. Even the big landslide in Germany looks suspiciously like a large leaking concrete culvert in clay soil triggered a slide - in fact a lot of places in Germany seem to have had blown culverts causing the big ground washouts.
But blaming climate is a handy political divert from poor flood, land, river and infrastructure management. These things need handling but that's a harder problem apparently than just blaming people's sins for it.
People that are affected will likely say this is climate change.
People reading it on a forum with a pronounced leaning To questioning everything they think will in some way curtail their freedom will likely say it isn’t climate change and it’s just excuses.
Until their home gets destroyed by fire/flood/storm that is.
Some people live in valleys and flood plains. It’s a fact. It doesn’t mean to say that they get what they deserve because it’s just inevitable nature.
People reading it on a forum with a pronounced leaning To questioning everything they think will in some way curtail their freedom will likely say it isn’t climate change and it’s just excuses.
Until their home gets destroyed by fire/flood/storm that is.
Some people live in valleys and flood plains. It’s a fact. It doesn’t mean to say that they get what they deserve because it’s just inevitable nature.
Lotobear said:
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It does strike me as ironic that Germany are Europe's biggest burners of lignite in their power stations - I wonder if this might make them reconsider that policy?
https://strom-report.de/germany-power-generation-mix/#:~:text=Germany%E2%80%99s%20Power%20Generation%20Mix%202019%20Germany%20hits%20record,now%2046%25%20of%20the%20country%E2%80%99s%20gross%20power%20generation.It does strike me as ironic that Germany are Europe's biggest burners of lignite in their power stations - I wonder if this might make them reconsider that policy?
The issue is being addressed rapidly
TTmonkey said:
People that are affected will likely say this is climate change.
Some people live in valleys and flood plains. It’s a fact. It doesn’t mean to say that they get what they deserve because it’s just inevitable nature.
200 years ago they'd have blamed a sky fairy upset at sinners, now they just blame the sky getting upset at sinners.Some people live in valleys and flood plains. It’s a fact. It doesn’t mean to say that they get what they deserve because it’s just inevitable nature.
Live somewhere like the middle of a meander in the bottom of a steep valley, or a couple of feet above a river on a plain and you shouldn't be surprised if it gets wet. Nasty when it happens but it is inevitable nature.
I've lived in Germany in a house that was below the level of the redirected narrowed river on a plain and floods weren't rare with the river up multiple metres and roaring through. They happen and a lot is due to the outright stupidity of what people have built and where and the inevitable of what happens when it rains heavily on a massive catchment with only a few rivers to let it out.
PeteinSQ said:
I find it bizarre that whilst we're reporting this year on two massively extreme weather events that are quite probably linked to climate change (extreme heat in the Pacific NW and this flooding) we're still whining about the fact that people can't fly to Ibiza or wherever. Or elsewhere about a movement away from the internal combustion engine.
The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
Depressingly, I think we're seeing the rise of a sizeable proportion of western society who aren't in really denial about what's happening - for all the blustering attempts at repudiation of the science, they do actually understand the effect that we're having on the environment and climate, but ultimately they just don't care.The majority of people seem to be living in complete denial as to what's happening and what is going to happen...
In the same way that a portion of the US population accept that having regular school shootings, and mass shootings in general, is a price worth paying to retain what they see as their God-given Second Amendment rights, we have people - and not just a few of them - who are willing to accept whatever form of climate related disaster as an acceptable consequence of being allowed to maintain their current patterns of consumption and pollution. Again, in the US the rise of Trumpism is a symptom of that sort of mentality, and if it can happen in the US, it can happen in any democracy - and in places like Russia and China, the gangsters in charge make those types of decisions on behalf of the populace anyway.
Even in this thread, we have someone - with complete disregard for the scale of human misery and destruction being caused by these floods - simply asserting it's the fault of the victims for living where they did. That's the sort of despicable arse-hat we're looking at.
PBCD said:
Shocking as that initially appears, there is no context provided. There is a large sand/gravel quarry immediately below that, which the material has obviously slipped/ been scoured into.Before getting overexcited about the end of the world, it is worth reading this:
https://ourworldindata.org/natural-disasters
TL:DR - despite billions more people living on Earth, despite many of those billions living in places that their ancestors considered “dangerous”, the only discernible trend over the last century is that death due to natural disasters is reducing.
I can’t speak for Germany, but in the UK, we build on flood plains, we deforest run-off areas, we don’t maintain waterways, and we’re all surprised that there are floods. I’m in Spain at the moment, and I remember watching wildfires when I was a kid (quite a long time ago). Surprise, once they remembered to maintain the scrub like their grandparents did (cut and controlled burn the dead stuff), there were no more wildfires.
https://ourworldindata.org/natural-disasters
TL:DR - despite billions more people living on Earth, despite many of those billions living in places that their ancestors considered “dangerous”, the only discernible trend over the last century is that death due to natural disasters is reducing.
I can’t speak for Germany, but in the UK, we build on flood plains, we deforest run-off areas, we don’t maintain waterways, and we’re all surprised that there are floods. I’m in Spain at the moment, and I remember watching wildfires when I was a kid (quite a long time ago). Surprise, once they remembered to maintain the scrub like their grandparents did (cut and controlled burn the dead stuff), there were no more wildfires.
eharding said:
Depressingly, I think we're seeing the rise of a sizeable proportion of western society who aren't in really denial about what's happening - for all the blustering attempts at repudiation of the science, they do actually understand the effect that we're having on the environment and climate, but ultimately they just don't care.
In the same way that a portion of the US population accept that having regular school shootings, and mass shootings in general, is a price worth paying to retain what they see as their God-given Second Amendment rights, we have people - and not just a few of them - who are willing to accept whatever form of climate related disaster as an acceptable consequence of being allowed to maintain their current patterns of consumption and pollution. Again, in the US the rise of Trumpism is a symptom of that sort of mentality, and if it can happen in the US, it can happen in any democracy - and in places like Russia and China, the gangsters in charge make those types of decisions on behalf of the populace anyway.
Even in this thread, we have someone - with complete disregard for the scale of human misery and destruction being caused by these floods - simply asserting it's the fault of the victims for living where they did. That's the sort of despicable arse-hat we're looking at.
Climate change denial being compared to US gun law reform resistance/Trumpism? That's some impressive mental gymnastics! In the same way that a portion of the US population accept that having regular school shootings, and mass shootings in general, is a price worth paying to retain what they see as their God-given Second Amendment rights, we have people - and not just a few of them - who are willing to accept whatever form of climate related disaster as an acceptable consequence of being allowed to maintain their current patterns of consumption and pollution. Again, in the US the rise of Trumpism is a symptom of that sort of mentality, and if it can happen in the US, it can happen in any democracy - and in places like Russia and China, the gangsters in charge make those types of decisions on behalf of the populace anyway.
Even in this thread, we have someone - with complete disregard for the scale of human misery and destruction being caused by these floods - simply asserting it's the fault of the victims for living where they did. That's the sort of despicable arse-hat we're looking at.
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