Red diesel ban - April 2022
Discussion
Well this one has slipped under the radar - for me anyway.
I have just been told by my fuel supplier they will no longer be supplying us from next year.
I just had a quick skim read of the legislation and other than farms, travelling fun fairs, machinery for gritting / snow clearing and forestry work and commercial fishing its basically the end of red diesel.
All the other uses for red diesel like fork lift trucks, refer unuts, JCBs etc are going to be banned.
The legislation is living in cloud cuckoo land - it says there is going to be no impact to businesses. I dont know who writes this stuff but we are a drop in the ocean compared to some places are we use at least 20,000L red diesel a year.
Now we will have to use white and the extra cost will be around £10k a year. For big firms it must be eye watering.
Even less chance of a wage rise for my staff now in the next couple of years.
On top of this we are dealing with the low emissions zones which we expect to come in around the same time.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reform-...
The legislation actually proposes that businesses drain their red diesel tanks and return the fuel to suppliers. I mean literally no chance of any fuel supplier taking fuel back. Never have I heard such rubbish.
I have just been told by my fuel supplier they will no longer be supplying us from next year.
I just had a quick skim read of the legislation and other than farms, travelling fun fairs, machinery for gritting / snow clearing and forestry work and commercial fishing its basically the end of red diesel.
All the other uses for red diesel like fork lift trucks, refer unuts, JCBs etc are going to be banned.
The legislation is living in cloud cuckoo land - it says there is going to be no impact to businesses. I dont know who writes this stuff but we are a drop in the ocean compared to some places are we use at least 20,000L red diesel a year.
Now we will have to use white and the extra cost will be around £10k a year. For big firms it must be eye watering.
Even less chance of a wage rise for my staff now in the next couple of years.
On top of this we are dealing with the low emissions zones which we expect to come in around the same time.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reform-...
The legislation actually proposes that businesses drain their red diesel tanks and return the fuel to suppliers. I mean literally no chance of any fuel supplier taking fuel back. Never have I heard such rubbish.
cml24 said:
Why are there exceptions to the ban?
Is the purpose of the ban to try and force businesses into alternatives, such as electric powered construction equipment? Why not apply that rule to everyone? Do the exceptions need financial help specifically?
There are no electric alternatives to things like farming equipment. A lot of farmers struggle as it is, banning red diesel isn't a good idea.Is the purpose of the ban to try and force businesses into alternatives, such as electric powered construction equipment? Why not apply that rule to everyone? Do the exceptions need financial help specifically?
If someone can supply me with electric JCBs for the value of my current diesel ones then I am all ears.
The issue is cost to replace. I think the government just dont get that.
Its exactly the same with LEZs. I run DAF CFs and I generally buy them at about 6 years old for £50k and then run them till they are 15 ish years old. We try and do this every other year so we are generally keeping the fleet turning over.
Now the government want me to scrap these wagons and replace with new E6 trucks. Yeah thats all great except they are £120k each. Thats about 1/2 million pound order. The bank would laugh us out of the door no way they ever going to lend us that kind of money.
The issue is cost to replace. I think the government just dont get that.
Its exactly the same with LEZs. I run DAF CFs and I generally buy them at about 6 years old for £50k and then run them till they are 15 ish years old. We try and do this every other year so we are generally keeping the fleet turning over.
Now the government want me to scrap these wagons and replace with new E6 trucks. Yeah thats all great except they are £120k each. Thats about 1/2 million pound order. The bank would laugh us out of the door no way they ever going to lend us that kind of money.
phumy said:
All these charges will get passed through and its Jo Public, you and me, who picks up the bill.
Yes. We will be adding an £8 "emissions charge" to every order from the day they introduce low emissions zones here. I am probably looking at making that £9 now to cover red diesel too.
red_slr said:
If someone can supply me with electric JCBs for the value of my current diesel ones then I am all ears.
The issue is cost to replace. I think the government just dont get that.
Its exactly the same with LEZs. I run DAF CFs and I generally buy them at about 6 years old for £50k and then run them till they are 15 ish years old. We try and do this every other year so we are generally keeping the fleet turning over.
Now the government want me to scrap these wagons and replace with new E6 trucks. Yeah thats all great except they are £120k each. Thats about 1/2 million pound order. The bank would laugh us out of the door no way they ever going to lend us that kind of money.
It’s just really obvious that nobody in government has worked in industries that includes shifting physical stuff. It’s all lawyers and bankers. Nothing wrong with lawyers and bankers, but it does seem that there’s a real paucity of understanding re: how other parts of the economy operate. The issue is cost to replace. I think the government just dont get that.
Its exactly the same with LEZs. I run DAF CFs and I generally buy them at about 6 years old for £50k and then run them till they are 15 ish years old. We try and do this every other year so we are generally keeping the fleet turning over.
Now the government want me to scrap these wagons and replace with new E6 trucks. Yeah thats all great except they are £120k each. Thats about 1/2 million pound order. The bank would laugh us out of the door no way they ever going to lend us that kind of money.
You see this in much of the discussion of Brexit, the current HGV driver worries, the pingdemic and so on. Oh well, c’est la vie.
Jawls said:
red_slr said:
If someone can supply me with electric JCBs for the value of my current diesel ones then I am all ears.
The issue is cost to replace. I think the government just dont get that.
Its exactly the same with LEZs. I run DAF CFs and I generally buy them at about 6 years old for £50k and then run them till they are 15 ish years old. We try and do this every other year so we are generally keeping the fleet turning over.
Now the government want me to scrap these wagons and replace with new E6 trucks. Yeah thats all great except they are £120k each. Thats about 1/2 million pound order. The bank would laugh us out of the door no way they ever going to lend us that kind of money.
It’s just really obvious that nobody in government has worked in industries that includes shifting physical stuff. It’s all lawyers and bankers. Nothing wrong with lawyers and bankers, but it does seem that there’s a real paucity of understanding re: how other parts of the economy operate. The issue is cost to replace. I think the government just dont get that.
Its exactly the same with LEZs. I run DAF CFs and I generally buy them at about 6 years old for £50k and then run them till they are 15 ish years old. We try and do this every other year so we are generally keeping the fleet turning over.
Now the government want me to scrap these wagons and replace with new E6 trucks. Yeah thats all great except they are £120k each. Thats about 1/2 million pound order. The bank would laugh us out of the door no way they ever going to lend us that kind of money.
They just dont understand. I tried to explain on a good year each of our trucks makes maybe £10k, on a bad year half that.
Its very tight, and bringing in a daily LEZ charge which amounts to £13k a year just wipes it out.
The bank / truck dealers wont lease us 5,6,7 vehicles - we just dont make enough profit to pass the affordability. (plus a 2.5k a month lease is not profitable either!)
I have been saying it for the last couple of years but I think small business is really going to struggle over the next few years. Especially anyone involved in road transport of any kind.
Edited by red_slr on Thursday 29th July 10:47
red_slr said:
I have just been told by my fuel supplier they will no longer be supplying us from next year.
I just had a quick skim read of the legislation and other than farms, travelling fun fairs, machinery for gritting / snow clearing and forestry work and commercial fishing its basically the end of red diesel.
Have you looked into what it takes to register as company that provides snow clearing? I mean, with JCBs (is that what you have?) you could easily provide a local service around your way on the very rare instances it's needed.I just had a quick skim read of the legislation and other than farms, travelling fun fairs, machinery for gritting / snow clearing and forestry work and commercial fishing its basically the end of red diesel.
Example from Suffolk - https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/assets/Roads-and-transp...
Would that be better than paying an extra £10k a year?
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