Gas prices, fertiliser, CO2 and food chain security...

[WindyCommon]

The UK's two largest manufacturers of fertiliser have halted production because the sharp increase in gas prices has made it uneconomic. CO2 is (predominantly) a by-product of fertiliser manufacturing and has many uses, particularly within our food chain.

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=gas+prices+fertiliser+co2+uk

Are some dominoes starting to fall here, or is this nothing to worry about?

[lost in espace]

All I know is I bought a pack of steaks from Costco and the next day they had gone off. I suspect co2 use is being reduced to the minimum where possible.

[jimmythingy]

Crazy isn't it, basically 60% of UK CO2 production comes as a by product from fertilizer production. So turn off fertilizer production and food manufacturing, hospitals and many other industries critical to the UK start to fall over. It beggers belief.

Are supply chains in the UK this fragile?

Edited by jimmythingy on Sunday 19th September 21:34

[Misanthrope]

jimmythingy said:

Crazy isn't it, basically 60% of UK CO2 production comes as a by product from fertilizer production. So turn off fertilizer production and food manufacturing, hospitals and many other industries critical to the UK start to fall over. It beggers belief.

Are supply chains in the UK this fragile?

Lots of things are remarkably fragile when you look into it. Not surprisingly, as the "free market" doesn't reward resilience, just low cost. When you cut costs to the bone, resilience is one of those things that get cut because, most of the time, no-one realises its been cut. It's only when the st hits the fan that you find out.

[abzmike]

When cabinet ministers start making statements in the media that there is nothing to worry about with regards to gas and food supplies, then there probably is.

[V88Dicky]

If it affects lager production, there’ll be hell to pay!

[Wills2]

Welcome to the sunny uplands...everything seems to be on a knife edge and we're being run by a cabinet that is largely made up of the scrapings off the bottom of the political barrel.

In a way I hope this does turn out to be Boris's winter of discontent, which will hopefully lead to the Tories ridding themselves of this troublesome priest.

[Wills2]

Fuel also also in short supply panic buying and HGV shortages combining and expect panic buying this week in the supermarkets on fresh meat the suppliers only have a couple of days left of C02.

[jimmythingy]

Well it's seems now that it's not a crisis unless it 's a national crisis.

I'm sure the hospitality sector will be sacrificed in an emergency as it's been shown in the last 18 months so lager maybe off until after Christmas.

[stichill99]

I have been told that fertiliser wasn't selling to farmers because of the high prices being asked. I bought for last year at £192 last November but I was offered it at £350 a ton last week. Shut down plant and resell gas and make a huge profit for doing nothing! If fertiliser was selling they would not have shut the plant down. Pure greed because wheat had a big price increase and the fertiliser companies thought we will have some of that!

[Biggy Stardust]

I thought nitrogen rather than CO2 was used for a lot of food packaging?

[johnboy1975]

WindyCommon said:

The UK's two largest manufacturers of fertiliser have halted production because the sharp increase in gas prices has made it uneconomic. CO2 is (predominantly) a by-product of fertiliser manufacturing and has many uses, particularly within our food chain.

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=gas+prices+fertiliser+co2+uk

Are some dominoes starting to fall here, or is this nothing to worry about?

Surely they just up their prices to cover the increased gas costs? If that means grain, meat, fizzy drinks + beer costs more, that's st, but its better than no grain, no meat, no drinks etc

Inflation could well get out of hand though. How much are we talking? Gas up 50%, but that won't mean your steak costs 50% more. It will be a much smaller percentage.....

Seems like a perfect storm is brewing

If they wait until gas is back down to Jan 21 levels, we could be waiting some time

[Square Leg]

Very good friend of mine is high up the chain at 2 Sisters - he was telling me months ago to prepare for a distinct lack of poultry and fizzy drinks (and beer) in the coming months, and shortage of food in general.
The lack of co2 is a massive issue.

[rdjohn]

jimmythingy said:

Crazy isn't it, basically 60% of UK CO2 production comes as a by product from fertilizer production. So turn off fertilizer production and food manufacturing, hospitals and many other industries critical to the UK start to fall over. It beggers belief.

Are supply chains in the UK this fragile?

Edited by jimmythingy on Sunday 19th September 21:34

And all that nasty CO2 that we pump into the atmosphere is causing climate change.

Oh, wait! I’ve had an idea…

[Biggy Stardust]

Misanthrope said:

Lots of things are remarkably fragile when you look into it. Not surprisingly, as the "free market" doesn't reward resilience, just low cost. When you cut costs to the bone, resilience is one of those things that get cut because, most of the time, no-one realises its been cut. It's only when the st hits the fan that you find out.

Companies are all run by accountants rather than the people who actually know how things are done. This was always the inevitable consequence.

[DaveGrohl]

johnboy1975 said:

WindyCommon said:

The UK's two largest manufacturers of fertiliser have halted production because the sharp increase in gas prices has made it uneconomic. CO2 is (predominantly) a by-product of fertiliser manufacturing and has many uses, particularly within our food chain.

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=gas+prices+fertiliser+co2+uk

Are some dominoes starting to fall here, or is this nothing to worry about?

Surely they just up their prices to cover the increased gas costs? If that means grain, meat, fizzy drinks + beer costs more, that's st, but its better than no grain, no meat, no drinks etc

Inflation could well get out of hand though. How much are we talking? Gas up 50%, but that won't mean your steak costs 50% more. It will be a much smaller percentage.....

Seems like a perfect storm is brewing

If they wait until gas is back down to Jan 21 levels, we could be waiting some time

Fert manufacture is an international market. It's their factory so they can shut it if they want if they can't make money, but this is what comes of concentration of markets. Competition forced out of the system and no one gives a st until the st hits the fan. People never stop shouting that this sort of thing is inevitable but no one listens until it's too late. Just the way it is these days. In this country. Other countries take a slightly different view.

Does anyone actually believe inflation is 3%? Lots of things I buy have increased by somewhere between 50% to over 100%.

[Murph7355]

DaveGrohl said:

...

Does anyone actually believe inflation is 3%? Lots of things I buy have increased by somewhere between 50% to over 100%.

I believe it's nearer 3% (and rising) than 50%-100%.

What have you bought that's risen that much?

[Square Leg]

Our paint costs have risen by 10% since January, with some manufacturers warning of another rise this side of 2022.

[Scotty2]

Radio 5 had an "Expert Physicist" to tell us about CO2 and the issues. I have never heard so much waffle and lack of understanding spouted out between the erms and errs. Perhaps someone who knows something about it would have been better!

I am slightly glad to see people squirming now that we actually do want CO2.... You know plant food...part of the carbon cycle which most now tend to ignore...

[rscott]

stichill99 said:

I have been told that fertiliser wasn't selling to farmers because of the high prices being asked. I bought for last year at £192 last November but I was offered it at £350 a ton last week. Shut down plant and resell gas and make a huge profit for doing nothing! If fertiliser was selling they would not have shut the plant down. Pure greed because wheat had a big price increase and the fertiliser companies thought we will have some of that!

More likely their raw material costs have increased massively - a lot are imported, so will have been affected by the disruption to international shipping over the last few months (containers out of place, etc), plus the additional costs/admin processing involved for any materials shipped from the EU.