Covid - Could any party have got it right?
Poll: Covid - Could any party have got it right?
Total Members Polled: 130
Discussion
Even though this isn't a political post, i wanted to know what peoples opinions were on if they think that ANY other political party in the UK would have done a better job than the current lot, and reasons why?
I can't help but think - with how fluid and groundbreaking this whole Covid thing has been, could anyone have got it 'right' ? Data and knowledge was changing hourly back in the beginning and i'm starting to wonder if we failed as a country (ie, not doing what we were told) rather than being told the wrong things ?
Could any party have got the whole country on side and doing the right things at the right time?
I can't help but think - with how fluid and groundbreaking this whole Covid thing has been, could anyone have got it 'right' ? Data and knowledge was changing hourly back in the beginning and i'm starting to wonder if we failed as a country (ie, not doing what we were told) rather than being told the wrong things ?
Could any party have got the whole country on side and doing the right things at the right time?
Pixelpeep 135 said:
Even though this isn't a political post, i wanted to know what peoples opinions were on if they think that ANY other political party in the UK would have done a better job than the current lot, and reasons why?
I can't help but think - with how fluid and groundbreaking this whole Covid thing has been, could anyone have got it 'right' ? Data and knowledge was changing hourly back in the beginning and i'm starting to wonder if we failed as a country (ie, not doing what we were told) rather than being told the wrong things ?
Could any party have got the whole country on side and doing the right things at the right time?
'got it right' or 'done a better job'? different. I believe other parties may have done better, but nobody could've 'got it right'. I'm not sure 'getting it right' is possible- I don't think I know of a country which we can say has 'got it right', because it's not over. I can't help but think - with how fluid and groundbreaking this whole Covid thing has been, could anyone have got it 'right' ? Data and knowledge was changing hourly back in the beginning and i'm starting to wonder if we failed as a country (ie, not doing what we were told) rather than being told the wrong things ?
Could any party have got the whole country on side and doing the right things at the right time?
The problem is that there was a total overreaction resulting in panic, throughout the world - I don't think any of them would have done any better, although Labour would have made restrictions even more draconian (look at the Welsh leadership...) & probably ended up kicking the can down the road for much the same result.
Apparently we very nearly followed the Swedish example, but HMG collectively lost their nerve.
This thing isn't going away, ever - heaven help us if a really nasty disease comes along with death rates similar to Ebola.
Apparently we very nearly followed the Swedish example, but HMG collectively lost their nerve.
This thing isn't going away, ever - heaven help us if a really nasty disease comes along with death rates similar to Ebola.
Has any party, anywhere in the world, got it right? Sure, NZ managed to keep it at bay by isolating themselves, but its out there now and I can't help but think it's only time before it gets in. Keeping it out forever means isolation forever and that won't happen.
As for us, I find it really frustrating that is becomes a party political football. A lot like Brexit, party politics should have nothing to do with it. It's an issue of national significance that should have left party politics at the door with the best minds agreeing the best solution. And i don't think that goes anywhere near the 'vox pops ask the people school of policy making' that seems to be so popular. To me asking the least qualified or informed people what the answer should be is just a stupid thing to do if you are trying to make serious decisions with long term consequences.
As for us, I find it really frustrating that is becomes a party political football. A lot like Brexit, party politics should have nothing to do with it. It's an issue of national significance that should have left party politics at the door with the best minds agreeing the best solution. And i don't think that goes anywhere near the 'vox pops ask the people school of policy making' that seems to be so popular. To me asking the least qualified or informed people what the answer should be is just a stupid thing to do if you are trying to make serious decisions with long term consequences.
Health is a devolved matter, so all we need to do is look at the four UK governments and see if any of them 'got it right'. In my view, none of them did.
I am convinced, however, that if Labour had been in charge, they'd have curtailed our liberties even more than the Tories. And locked down harder. For longer. Even now, when I hear Jonathan Ashworth speak, a little shudder runs through me. If you thought Hancock was bad..............
I am convinced, however, that if Labour had been in charge, they'd have curtailed our liberties even more than the Tories. And locked down harder. For longer. Even now, when I hear Jonathan Ashworth speak, a little shudder runs through me. If you thought Hancock was bad..............
Consider if the Tories went harder and we had an Australia-type lock down. We'd be asking whether we went too hard, were too draconian, and whether Labour would have trusted the British people to have common sense. Did we need to lose so many jobs for a virus which seems to be barely affect us?
We'd be pointing at the countless Brits trapped abroad for months, unable to return, and pointing to the fact that only those who could afford first-class airfares were allowed back as airlines struggled to make flights viable - "once again, the Tories look out for their own!" etc.
Swap the parties and Labour would be painted as too weak if they'd have followed the current course; Criticised for spending too much public money on furlough, careless and inept. If Labour went harder they'd be decried as an extreme nanny-state who wish to control too much of our personal liberties.
No. The opposition, whatever their colour, will always shoulda-woulda-coulda on anything the incumbents suggest. Hindsight is very useful for that.
We'd be pointing at the countless Brits trapped abroad for months, unable to return, and pointing to the fact that only those who could afford first-class airfares were allowed back as airlines struggled to make flights viable - "once again, the Tories look out for their own!" etc.
Swap the parties and Labour would be painted as too weak if they'd have followed the current course; Criticised for spending too much public money on furlough, careless and inept. If Labour went harder they'd be decried as an extreme nanny-state who wish to control too much of our personal liberties.
No. The opposition, whatever their colour, will always shoulda-woulda-coulda on anything the incumbents suggest. Hindsight is very useful for that.
Biker 1 said:
Apparently we very nearly followed the Swedish example, but HMG collectively lost their nerve.
The Tories could never let themselves be seen (rightly or wrongly) as the party that brought the NHS to its knees through inaction.In this respect Labour would actually stand a better chance of taking the flak although I doubt they would have stuck through with it.
Noting Corbyn has voted against restrictions a few times and one can only imagine the furore Boris would be making about loss of freedoms if he was the one in opposition.
This issue was always going to be a no win situation for any government. Been seen to over react and you are slated. Be seen to not react enough and you are slated. As much as many people on here and elsewhere hate the likes of Johnson and Hancock I dont think anyone would have wanted to have been in their place.
'Got it right'? No probably not. Done a hell of a lot better? I'd suggest there is good reason to think so.
In terms of who has got things broadly right or at least a lot less right, I'd say probably the scandis especially Denmark and Sweden who have higher population densities than Finland/Norway especially in the larger cities so much more analogous to Europe.
Overall they have been much clearer and honest about the covid related data/numbers and the uncertainties involved and by being transparent about the underlying uncertainties and admitting when they have been wrong, the public health authorities also have seemed to maintain a good bit more trust and buy in from the general public. As compared to here after all the blatant misrepresentation used by all manner of people to try to 'nudge' people the right way courtesy of SPI-B etc....
In terms of who has got things broadly right or at least a lot less right, I'd say probably the scandis especially Denmark and Sweden who have higher population densities than Finland/Norway especially in the larger cities so much more analogous to Europe.
Overall they have been much clearer and honest about the covid related data/numbers and the uncertainties involved and by being transparent about the underlying uncertainties and admitting when they have been wrong, the public health authorities also have seemed to maintain a good bit more trust and buy in from the general public. As compared to here after all the blatant misrepresentation used by all manner of people to try to 'nudge' people the right way courtesy of SPI-B etc....
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: I think it's a mistake to think of it as a party issue.
If any Government regardless of party did the same things at the same time the result would be the same.
The same things at the same time gets the same result you say….hmmm interesting.If any Government regardless of party did the same things at the same time the result would be the same.
How about if, presented with the same situation, they did…different things…or the same things but earlier, or the same things but longer.
Liokault said:
The same things at the same time gets the same result you say….hmmm interesting.
How about if, presented with the same situation, they did…different things…or the same things but earlier, or the same things but longer.
That might have a different outcome but if the things done and the timings were the same it shouldn't matter what party it was.How about if, presented with the same situation, they did…different things…or the same things but earlier, or the same things but longer.
Not sure I get you.
mwstewart said:
It's impossible. Too many conflicting interests.
This, plus nobody can decide on what "right" means. "Right" for some is immediate enforced lockdown a la China, and "right" for others is no lockdown, no distancing, and no vaccinations.What we can be certain of though is that this government were appalling at taking decisive action, one way or the other.
I doubt anyone would have 'got it right' - and we won't know for several years how well we and everyone country has done.
In the UK we also suffered from the hangover of the Brexit vote and a recent general election, meaning we had a very new and inexperienced cabinet. The opposition parties were (are) in disarray which meant there was little chance of cross-party co-operation.
One thing I believe - that I've not seen mentioned by anyone else - is that it was a (understandable) mistake to treat coronavirus as a health issue. Because it was 'health' it means that the powers to act on it were passed to the devolved administrations but once something becomes a pandemic then I think it should be considered as a national emergency and dealt with at a UK level.
In the UK we also suffered from the hangover of the Brexit vote and a recent general election, meaning we had a very new and inexperienced cabinet. The opposition parties were (are) in disarray which meant there was little chance of cross-party co-operation.
One thing I believe - that I've not seen mentioned by anyone else - is that it was a (understandable) mistake to treat coronavirus as a health issue. Because it was 'health' it means that the powers to act on it were passed to the devolved administrations but once something becomes a pandemic then I think it should be considered as a national emergency and dealt with at a UK level.
Edited by rover 623gsi on Friday 22 October 19:42
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