Proportional Representation
Discussion
The FPTP system is divisive, undemocratic and inevitably results in governments that do not accurately reflect the views of the electorate. As a consequence many people feel disenfranchised and that their vote is wasted.
If we really want to engage people then surely we have to move to system that properly reflects their opinions. I genuinely believe that the only way to do this is to reform the electoral system and that proportional representation is the only way forwards.
I defy anyone who honestly believes in democracy to defend the FPTP system.
If we really want to engage people then surely we have to move to system that properly reflects their opinions. I genuinely believe that the only way to do this is to reform the electoral system and that proportional representation is the only way forwards.
I defy anyone who honestly believes in democracy to defend the FPTP system.
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It was drummed into us at school that PR was bad because it would mean fringe parties (examples used were the Nazis) could get representation even though they make up (at a certain time) a small % of the votes.
I am veering on thinking it would be good (not the Nazis bit).
I also don't think its a given that voting would stay the same - if we had PR some of the smaller parties could gain votes (e.g. Greens) and people who may live in a Labour/Tory safe seat now know their vote is likely to have more of an impact.
I am veering on thinking it would be good (not the Nazis bit).
I also don't think its a given that voting would stay the same - if we had PR some of the smaller parties could gain votes (e.g. Greens) and people who may live in a Labour/Tory safe seat now know their vote is likely to have more of an impact.
Cryssys said:
The FPTP system is divisive, undemocratic and inevitably results in governments that do not accurately reflect the views of the electorate. As a consequence many people feel disenfranchised and that their vote is wasted.
If we really want to engage people then surely we have to move to system that properly reflects their opinions. I genuinely believe that the only way to do this is to reform the electoral system and that proportional representation is the only way forwards.
I defy anyone who honestly believes in democracy to defend the FPTP system.
MEPs were voted in by PR...just saying...If we really want to engage people then surely we have to move to system that properly reflects their opinions. I genuinely believe that the only way to do this is to reform the electoral system and that proportional representation is the only way forwards.
I defy anyone who honestly believes in democracy to defend the FPTP system.
PR isn't perfect, but an element of PR should I think be tried.
I am no UKIP fan, but what was it they got at 2015 (?) 3.9m votes and 1 MP?
No one interested in the health of representative democracy can't be concerned about that kind of outcome.
COVID highlighted the abject failure of two monolithic parties all running scared of social media.
We need people to speak up without fear or favour. PR in no way guarantees that, but it seems to me more likely to help a bit than not.
I am no UKIP fan, but what was it they got at 2015 (?) 3.9m votes and 1 MP?
No one interested in the health of representative democracy can't be concerned about that kind of outcome.
COVID highlighted the abject failure of two monolithic parties all running scared of social media.
We need people to speak up without fear or favour. PR in no way guarantees that, but it seems to me more likely to help a bit than not.
Replacing FPTP with PR merely substitutes one set of problems (your vote doesn't really count unless you're in a marginal seat) with another (as said, loony fringe parties become king makers).
The real issue is that our politicians of all colours, and I include those in the devolved assemblies/parliaments, are crap. The current Tory government is surely the worst any of us can remember, but imagine it was Labour instead.
I'm afraid that I don't have an answer as to how we can get better politicians though.
The real issue is that our politicians of all colours, and I include those in the devolved assemblies/parliaments, are crap. The current Tory government is surely the worst any of us can remember, but imagine it was Labour instead.
I'm afraid that I don't have an answer as to how we can get better politicians though.
speedking31 said:
PR = hung parliament after hung parliament after hung parliament = no decisions ever get made.
Also, how do you apportion the representatives to regions? If not, then no-one has a local MP to argue their cause with, making MPs more remote from the populace they represent.
You have FPTP constituencies as per now. And then you have a group of people directly representative of the share of vote. Also, how do you apportion the representatives to regions? If not, then no-one has a local MP to argue their cause with, making MPs more remote from the populace they represent.
speedking31 said:
PR = hung parliament after hung parliament after hung parliament = no decisions ever get made.
Also, how do you apportion the representatives to regions? If not, then no-one has a local MP to argue their cause with, making MPs more remote from the populace they represent.
That's right, all of those failing, unstable, nations like Germany, The Netherlands, Scandinavian countries, New Zealand, Ireland etc. Just can't get anything decided or achieved..... Also, how do you apportion the representatives to regions? If not, then no-one has a local MP to argue their cause with, making MPs more remote from the populace they represent.
There are various systems available, some with an element of local representation.
proportional representation
New Zealand successfully changed from a British legacy FPTP to a PR system.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 8th November 18:32
caziques said:
A problem with PR is potentially the tail wagging the dog.
Say, for example, two big parties have 48% of the vote each - and a minor party has the 4% balance.
The minor party then gets to decide who governs.
Spurious argument and one that does not address the issue. The question that we/you need to be asking is whether FPTP is truly democratic and does it result in governments that accurately reflect the views of the electorate. As things stand, the answer to both questions is most definitely no.Say, for example, two big parties have 48% of the vote each - and a minor party has the 4% balance.
The minor party then gets to decide who governs.
The tribal and adversarial nature of British politics is shocking and divisive. What we need in this country is consensus politics in the national interest and I believe that the only way we can achieve this is to move to PR
Cryssys said:
caziques said:
A problem with PR is potentially the tail wagging the dog.
Say, for example, two big parties have 48% of the vote each - and a minor party has the 4% balance.
The minor party then gets to decide who governs.
Spurious argument and one that does not address the issue. The question that we/you need to be asking is whether FPTP is truly democratic and does it result in governments that accurately reflect the views of the electorate. As things stand, the answer to both questions is most definitely no.Say, for example, two big parties have 48% of the vote each - and a minor party has the 4% balance.
The minor party then gets to decide who governs.
The tribal and adversarial nature of British politics is shocking and divisive. What we need in this country is consensus politics in the national interest and I believe that the only way we can achieve this is to move to PR
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