court tells police to butt out
Discussion
Court of Appeal says police recording of non crime hate incidents is unlawful and restricts freedom of expression.
https://order-order.com/2021/12/20/free-speech-uni...
https://order-order.com/2021/12/20/free-speech-uni...
Countdown said:
irc said:
Good question. I though crime categories were set by central govt. But as a non crime is not a crime?
..which begs the question why are Police investigating/recording "non crimes" 
These arent crimes but reported incidents with some anto racial, religious, transphobic, ethnicity, disability element. They are generally recorded on crime systems purely for convenience as a crime report contains all of the details required to record the incident without creating another system to record them on. They arent counted as crimes and dont get sent up on Home office returns. Theres no requirement to record them under the Home office counting rules - purely a college of Policing requirement. They can be reported by any person who perceives an incident to be motivated by hostility - not necessarily the person subject of the alleged behaviour.
Colleg of policing guidance here
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/majo...
Colleg of policing guidance here
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/majo...
Edited by Bigends on Monday 20th December 16:05
Edited by Bigends on Monday 20th December 16:17
Any chance we could update the title of this thread to be something useful? There are some really interesting points here to discuss which will be lost as nobody knows what the thread is actually about.
That aside. This is the right decision. And despite my (for this place) generally woke perspective on these things, I am rather disturbed at the concept of a "non-crime" being recorded, anywhere.
Freedom of speech is always a tricky one. But freedom to discuss, and freedom to say offensive things, is pretty important in my view.
That aside. This is the right decision. And despite my (for this place) generally woke perspective on these things, I am rather disturbed at the concept of a "non-crime" being recorded, anywhere.
Freedom of speech is always a tricky one. But freedom to discuss, and freedom to say offensive things, is pretty important in my view.
LeadFarmer said:
Countdown said:
..which begs the question why are Police investigating/recording "non crimes"
Well frauds are classified as non crime but they can get investigated.Non violent domestics can be recorded as non crimes, but they most certainly do get investigated.
DV non crime is only recorded as such after investigations reveal no offences to record. Again the crime system is a convenient way of recording the incident
Countdown said:
Aren't "recording categories" set by the Home Office?
i.e. the Police don't decide what they will/won't record and the categories they will record it under?
iirc this comes from a recommendation by the McPhereson enquiry i.e. the Police don't decide what they will/won't record and the categories they will record it under?
The problem comes that the CoP went “ok. We’ll do that then”
The issue is that anyone can say they are upset by what anyone else says and that hurt of feeling is recorded on Police records AND disclosed on vetting
Which quite rightly is wrong and unlawful
Bigends said:
XCP said:
As do missing persons and road accidents. They're not crimes either.
The idea that nothing but crime should be investigated is a bit quaint.
Theyre not recorded as non crimes thoughThe idea that nothing but crime should be investigated is a bit quaint.
The problem here is simple
An unsubstantiated allegation made by one person that someone else said something they “felt offended” by is recorded by Police AND then put on disclosures which can have a negative effect on the life of the person complained about
It has been rightly been upheld to be unlawful
There’s a big difference between what is a substantiated allegation of crime recorded on the PNC or an intelligence report recorded on an internal only database and this
Earthdweller said:
Bigends said:
XCP said:
As do missing persons and road accidents. They're not crimes either.
The idea that nothing but crime should be investigated is a bit quaint.
Theyre not recorded as non crimes thoughThe idea that nothing but crime should be investigated is a bit quaint.
The problem here is simple
An unsubstantiated allegation made by one person that someone else said something they “felt offended” by is recorded by Police AND then put on disclosures which can have a negative effect on the life of the person complained about
It has been rightly been upheld to be unlawful
There’s a big difference between what is a substantiated allegation of crime recorded on the PNC or an intelligence report recorded on an internal only database and this
Bigends said:
Exactly this. I recall a complaint to Police by an estranged husband whos wife reported him merely driving past her house. There was a long domestic abuse history between the two. She reported the matter - there were no offences disclosed and should have remained merely as an incident log. However they decided to record a Non Crime domestic incident without even speaking to him. This non crime report was later disclosed at some kind of family hearing. as a result of which he lost access to his kids. It should never have been recorded in the first place, those doing so had no idea as to the potential consequences of a simple non report.
Perhaps it's my old job tainting my view of domestic abuse, but there is often no 'merely' about driving pas the house of someone you abused. It should have been recorded, added to the file. Whether or not it should be disclosed to social services, etc, depends on circumstances of the crimes and whether or not it was intimidation.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff