Weekend Tube strikes for six months threatened

[Cotty]

Its looking like strike action every weekend from Friday, January 7, 2022, all the way through until June 2022. This would affect Central and Victoria lines from 8:30pm on Fridays until 8am on Saturdays, and from 8:30pm on Saturdays until 8am on Sundays.

Great just what every one needs Another kick in the teeth for the hospitality industry

https://secretldn.com/longest-tube-strike-2022/

[Dromedary66]

Tube "drivers" should have been replaced with computers years ago.

[Not-The-Messiah]

Dromedary66 said:

Tube "drivers" should have been replaced with computers years ago.

^This if any job needs automating its that one.

[Jiebo]

Dromedary66 said:

Tube "drivers" should have been replaced with computers years ago.

Tube drivers have to be the most entitled people in the whole of London. Not only do that have a salary which would be equivalent to almost 6 figures in the private sector, they seem to get away with holding 10 million people hostage multiple times a year.

Surely if cars can drive themselves with the massive complexity that comes with it, the go, stop button can be automated.

TFL needs to grow a back bone and get rid of all of them. They get massive numbers of applicants, so filling the roles cant be that hard.

[Cotty]

Dromedary66 said:

Tube "drivers" should have been replaced with computers years ago.

The Docklands Light Railway proves an automated system works.

[Cotty]

Jiebo said:

Surely if cars can drive themselves with the massive complexity that comes with it, the go, stop button can be automated.

Even trucks now. This one just drove across America from California to Quakertown in Pennsylvania.
https://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news/autono...

[Vasco]

Isn't the Victoria Line fully automated - and has been since inception (1968 ?).

The 'driver' is only there in case of something untoward, he doesn't drive anything as far as I can tell.

[amgmcqueen]

Not-The-Messiah said:

Dromedary66 said:

Tube "drivers" should have been replaced with computers years ago.

^This if any job needs automating its that one.

Why are they not automated now...?

[remedy]

Private companies developing technology for automated driving on complex 3 or 4 Lane roads that are also inhabited with humans and ergo random.

Vs

TFL unaccepting of a computer driven train driving on a track that has little to no chance of anything sharing it's track and better reaction times to an incident than a human.

[Vasco]

remedy said:

Private companies developing technology for automated driving on complex 3 or 4 Lane roads that are also inhabited with humans and ergo random.

Vs

TFL unaccepting of a computer driven train driving on a track that has little to no chance of anything sharing it's track and better reaction times to an incident than a human.

Quite.
(Is it TfL or the Union ?)

[Taita]

I'd be genuinely interested in the (surely there are tech reasons) why automated tube trains couldn't be a thing.

Eg I loathe the way they hold the customers hostage. Can't be that hard can it with tech?

But I'm sure there is stuff I don't know about from a tech POV / regulations (although we can change them)

Eta: does dlr have less 'crossover' with other lines thus easier?

[markcoznottz]

amgmcqueen said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

Dromedary66 said:

Tube "drivers" should have been replaced with computers years ago.

^This if any job needs automating its that one.

Why are they not automated now...?

Because.. strikes. Legacy protected unionised profession. Makes you come over all nostalgic for the 70’s don’t it.

[remedy]

Vasco said:

remedy said:

Private companies developing technology for automated driving on complex 3 or 4 Lane roads that are also inhabited with humans and ergo random.

Vs

TFL unaccepting of a computer driven train driving on a track that has little to no chance of anything sharing it's track and better reaction times to an incident than a human.

Quite.
(Is it TfL or the Union ?)

A good question. I'd be very interested to know the answer.

[Cotty]

Taita said:

I'd be genuinely interested in the (surely there are tech reasons) why automated tube trains couldn't be a thing.

Eg I loathe the way they hold the customers hostage. Can't be that hard can it with tech?

But I'm sure there is stuff I don't know about from a tech POV / regulations (although we can change them)

Eta: does dlr have less 'crossover' with other lines thus easier?

I believe it comes down to the cost and also the unions would still insist on a "driver" to take control in case of emergency
Boris has been pusing it since he was mayor as per this link
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/driverless-tube-tr...

[The Moose]

remedy said:

Vasco said:

remedy said:

Private companies developing technology for automated driving on complex 3 or 4 Lane roads that are also inhabited with humans and ergo random.

Vs

TFL unaccepting of a computer driven train driving on a track that has little to no chance of anything sharing it's track and better reaction times to an incident than a human.

Quite.
(Is it TfL or the Union ?)

A good question. I'd be very interested to know the answer.

Yes. I'm sure everyone is keen not to upset the apple cart - unions will be holding everyone to ransom over it.

Need to rip the band-aid off, make the transition and go driver-less.

[b0rk]

Vasco said:

Quite.
(Is it TfL or the Union ?)

Both unfortunately, see below from six months ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/01/tf...

Driverless on the tube isn't about removing staff totally but replacing the expensive driver with a much less expensive attendant who may or may not have a safety critical role.

Automatic train operation already exists to an extent on Victoria, Central, Jubilee, and Northern Lines with a driver still present in the cab. Thameslink and Crossrail as conventional rail use or will use automatic operation in their central sections. The technical barriers to full driver-less have basically been addressed some time ago and now its just the political ones left.

[fiatpower]

Jiebo said:

Surely if cars can drive themselves with the massive complexity that comes with it, the go, stop button can be automated.

It's already been done on the DLR hasn't it?

[Cotty]

fiatpower said:

It's already been done on the DLR hasn't it?

Difference is that was designed to be driverless from the outset. When the tube started in 1863 they were using steam trains. These are extremely old tunnels and ifrastruction that would need to be changed rather than just created.

[Vasco]

fiatpower said:

Jiebo said:

Surely if cars can drive themselves with the massive complexity that comes with it, the go, stop button can be automated.

It's already been done on the DLR hasn't it?

DLR is automated (with an 'attendant') and some foreign systems are fully automated - without staff.
I guess the problem is that the train design needs to be fully automated from the outset - it's likely to be difficult and costly to change existing trains.

[dan98]

b0rk said:

Both unfortunately, see below from six months ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/01/tf...

Driverless on the tube isn't about removing staff totally but replacing the expensive driver with a much less expensive attendant who may or may not have a safety critical role.

Automatic train operation already exists to an extent on Victoria, Central, Jubilee, and Northern Lines with a driver still present in the cab. Thameslink and Crossrail as conventional rail use or will use automatic operation in their central sections. The technical barriers to full driver-less have basically been addressed some time ago and now its just the political ones left.

With upwards of 1000 passengers crammed on a train + 1000s more trying to force their way on during the rush hour, I can easily imagine it's more than just political reasons why they need to stick a driver in those ancient vehicles.