Russia threatens Sweden and Finland...

[Murph7355]

... not to join NATO.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61066503

Seems to be upping the ante a chunk, threatening EU members with what they should and shouldn't do wrt their defence...

Putin's surely gone mental?

How can the West allow anything on sanctions etc to scale down while that whack job is still in power? Would go as far to say how can the EU not ramp sanctions all the way up now??

(Started a new thread as thought this was significant enough to separate from the Ukraine war/Russia after Putin ones. Happy for it to be merged if needed).

[Traffic]

I really don't see what Russia can do, they obviously can't handle one war let alone two wars.

[46and2]

Rhinemetall is planning to send 50 Leopard 1 tanks to Ukraine.

I'm sorry but is this the best Germany can do? Tanks from the 60s?

Edit these are likely upgraded versions as of early 2000s but still old.

Edited by 46and2 on Monday 11th April 14:29

[anonymous-user]

Ironically pretty much the entire reason NATO exists is to counter any threat from the large and geopolitically close threat from the Soviet Union and Russia. The best thing Putin could do to halt the spread of NATO is to have not threatened or invaded other countries. Obvious points but worth reiterating.

[anonymous-user]

46and2 said:

Rhinemetall is planning to send 50 Leopard 1 tanks to Ukraine.

I'm sorry but is this the best Germany can do? Tanks from the 60s?

er, some 1960's tanks (quite good ones) supported with an infantry carrying the latest anti-tank weapons is a formidable one.

[944 Man]

Threaten with what? Bad breath? Harsh language?

[46and2]

Max_Torque said:

46and2 said:

Rhinemetall is planning to send 50 Leopard 1 tanks to Ukraine.

I'm sorry but is this the best Germany can do? Tanks from the 60s?

er, some 1960's tanks (quite good ones) supported with an infantry carrying the latest anti-tank weapons is a formidable one.

Hope so.

[46and2]

It looks like the Slovaks are looking to supply Zuzana self propelled artillery, those look like very good systems. Highly mobile with autoloaders. Shoot and scoot which will be perfect for the Ukrainians.

Edit, just realised I posted this on the wrong thread.

Edited by 46and2 on Monday 11th April 14:49

[dukeboy749r]

I could post this in either thread:

Meanwhile, the Serbians are buying Chinese missiles - when I was hopeful that whilst the most 'Russian leaning' former part of the Balkans might continue its path towards alignment with the West.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-04...

[928 GTS]

944 Man said:

Threaten with what? Bad breath? Harsh language?

They still have some troop formations near Finnish border they haven't used at all in Ukraine. Way things are going down there its only matter of time they have to.

Finnish parliament is very likely going to send NATO application before summer. What happens after that is unknown. Certain NATO countries might not handle it quickly giving Russia time to do something.

Sweden isn't as clear case. If Finland joins they are more safe than now even if they don't join. Everyone knows even if Sweden isn't in NATO NATO will come in from every direction if there is any real threat of Russian invasion. They just have to to protect Norway and Denmark.

[944 Man]

I would be amazed if they tried. Despite absolute superiority both the Winter and Continuation Wars were immensely difficult for Russia, and Finland has spent the last 77yrs getting ready. Even the Ukrainians would look at them and be impressed.

[Boringvolvodriver]

928 GTS said:

944 Man said:

Threaten with what? Bad breath? Harsh language?

They still have some troop formations near Finnish border they haven't used at all in Ukraine. Way things are going down there its only matter of time they have to.

Finnish parliament is very likely going to send NATO application before summer. What happens after that is unknown. Certain NATO countries might not handle it quickly giving Russia time to do something.

Sweden isn't as clear case. If Finland joins they are more safe than now even if they don't join. Everyone knows even if Sweden isn't in NATO NATO will come in from every direction if there is any real threat of Russian invasion. They just have to to protect Norway and Denmark.

It is one thing to threaten Ukraine about joining NATO given that Ukraine was part of the old USSR but Finland has been an independent state since 1917 despite losing some of its land to Russia after WWII.

[Mr Penguin]

Would other EU countries get involved in that one, separately from NATO? I imagine Sweden would, if Putin is already threatening them via Finland and they are not in NATO.

[Electro1980]

Mr Penguin said:

Would other EU countries get involved in that one, separately from NATO? I imagine Sweden would, if Putin is already threatening them via Finland and they are not in NATO.

Yes, they would.

[Smollet]

Russia’s track record with Finland isn’t exactly covered with glory. I’d have thought best leave well alone

[Ayahuasca]

What is the benefit to NATO of Sweden and Finland joining ?

[glazbagun]

Ayahuasca said:

What is the benefit to NATO of Sweden and Finland joining ?

We get to fight Russia to the last Finn.

[Biggy Stardust]

Putin really seems to like telling other countries what they can & can't do.

Does it work in reverse & he has to obey others' commands or is a one way street only?

[Murph7355]

Ayahuasca said:

What is the benefit to NATO of Sweden and Finland joining ?

What is the benefit of NATO at all, in that case?

It's a collective defence arrangement. All for one and one for all.

Two more friendly countries join the fold, chuck their 2% in and away we go.

[Mr Penguin]

Ayahuasca said:

What is the benefit to NATO of Sweden and Finland joining ?

The same as any other country joining. North Macedonia is the latest entrant and is much smaller than Finland and Sweden.