Brooklyn train shooting

[edgyedgy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-61...
Apologies if there’s another thread on this but I just saw this on bbc website. Apparently threw a smoke bomb before opening fire in a packed carriage.

[F1GTRUeno]

I mean, it's just another day in America isn't it/

Add it to the pile.

[Ian Geary]

That's what I was going to say.

16 deaths a day would be hell of an achievement (think the us average is nearer 100 deaths a day)

Still: awful for the families of the victims of course, which goes without saying.

But if Americans don't care about Americans being shot by other Americans, you wonder how the situation is going to change?

(NRA - obviously arm all the other train passengers)

[Gaines178]

Sad to say this - if it wasn’t Manhattan it wouldn’t have even made the news in America.

[Matt Harper]

It wasn't Manhattan - and it made the news here.

[edgyedgy]

Ian Geary said:

That's what I was going to say.

16 deaths a day would be hell of an achievement (think the us average is nearer 100 deaths a day)

Still: awful for the families of the victims of course, which goes without saying.

But if Americans don't care about Americans being shot by other Americans, you wonder how the situation is going to change?

(NRA - obviously arm all the other train passengers)

By sounds of it shooter put on a gas mask before letting off a smoke grenade then opening fire. I doubt other passengers been armed would have helped though that won’t stop it been put forward as viable and reasonable.

[NMNeil]

You would think that with New York having some of the most stringent firearms laws in the US that this could never happen.
https://www.gunstocarry.com/gun-laws-state/new-yor...

[dvs_dave]

NMNeil said:

You would think that with New York having some of the most stringent firearms laws in the US that this could never happen.
https://www.gunstocarry.com/gun-laws-state/new-yor...

Ba-dum-tish….

Hard interstate customs borders, or greater federal restrictions is the only way to make a difference there.

But muh riiights, muh freedum, err jerbs!

[Gaines178]

Matt Harper said:

It wasn't Manhattan - and it made the news here.

Where was it? (Serious question as I know you know America well) - north of the ‘island’?

[dvs_dave]

Gaines178 said:

Matt Harper said:

It wasn't Manhattan - and it made the news here.

Where was it? (Serious question as I know you know America well) - north of the ‘island’?

See thread title for clues on location.

[NMNeil]

dvs_dave said:

Ba-dum-tish….

Hard interstate customs borders, or greater federal restrictions is the only way to make a difference there.

But muh riiights, muh freedum, err jerbs!

It's just that you can make as many laws as you like, but some idiots will still ignore them, as you well know.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-607...

[dvs_dave]

NMNeil said:

dvs_dave said:

Ba-dum-tish….

Hard interstate customs borders, or greater federal restrictions is the only way to make a difference there.

But muh riiights, muh freedum, err jerbs!

It's just that you can make as many laws as you like, but some idiots will still ignore them, as you well know.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-607...

Indeed, as we all well know. Criminals by definition don’t abide by laws. However when said laws vary wildly from state-to-state, and city-to-city, with completely porous borders between the myriad jurisdictions, it makes enforcement, and consequently deterrent, virtually impossible.

Hence why the only effective way to improve this particular failed system is at the federal level, and/or with hard interstate customs borders. One of these options isn’t feasible and other one is, but for “muh riiights, muh freedum, err jerbs!”

[Gaines178]

Matt Harper said:

It wasn't Manhattan - and it made the news here.

Where was it? (Serious question as I know you know America well) - north of the ‘island’?

[dvs_dave]

Gaines178 said:

Matt Harper said:

It wasn't Manhattan - and it made the news here.

Where was it? (Serious question as I know you know America well) - north of the ‘island’?

See thread title for clues…..

[NMNeil]

dvs_dave said:

Indeed, as we all well know. Criminals by definition don’t abide by laws. However when said laws vary wildly from state-to-state, and city-to-city, with completely porous borders between the myriad jurisdictions, it makes enforcement, and consequently deterrent, virtually impossible.

Hence why the only effective way to improve this particular failed system is at the federal level, and/or with hard interstate customs borders. One of these options isn’t feasible and other one is, but for “muh riiights, muh freedum, err jerbs!”

But as you well know in the UK, when the idiots/criminals couldn't get guns, they turned to knives.
Different weapon, same idiot/criminal.
Banning something only makes it more valuable, but doesn't fix the root cause of the problems the item causes, whether it be a gun or knife.

[CloudStuff]

Gaines178 said:

Matt Harper said:

It wasn't Manhattan - and it made the news here.

Where was it? (Serious question as I know you know America well) - north of the ‘island’?

Part of the other 80% of New York.

[gazza285]

NMNeil said:

But as you well know in the UK, when the idiots/criminals couldn't get guns, they turned to knives.
Different weapon, same idiot/criminal.
Banning something only makes it more valuable, but doesn't fix the root cause of the problems the item causes, whether it be a gun or knife.

I have seen this bks before. US knife attacks are on a par with knife attacks in the UK per million population, it's just that they have a whole load more of gun related violence on top of that level that we in the UK just don't have.

[NMNeil]

gazza285 said:

I have seen this bks before. US knife attacks are on a par with knife attacks in the UK per million population, it's just that they have a whole load more of gun related violence on top of that level that we in the UK just don't have.

UK gun crime has risen since guns were effectively banned. Nowhere near US levels admittedly, but it does show that banning guns is not the panacea that was expected.
I have no idea what can be done to quell the rise in gun violence, but banning guns doesn't seem to be working for the UK or the US.
What solution can you suggest?
https://us-browse.startpage.com/av/anon-image?piur...

[Gaines178]

Kinda my bad - but would certainly consider Brooklyn as what people know as “NYC” - I used to walk there for brunch - it’s certainly not a ghetto.

[dvs_dave]

NMNeil said:

dvs_dave said:

Indeed, as we all well know. Criminals by definition don’t abide by laws. However when said laws vary wildly from state-to-state, and city-to-city, with completely porous borders between the myriad jurisdictions, it makes enforcement, and consequently deterrent, virtually impossible.

Hence why the only effective way to improve this particular failed system is at the federal level, and/or with hard interstate customs borders. One of these options isn’t feasible and other one is, but for “muh riiights, muh freedum, err jerbs!”

But as you well know in the UK, when the idiots/criminals couldn't get guns, they turned to knives.
Different weapon, same idiot/criminal.
Banning something only makes it more valuable, but doesn't fix the root cause of the problems the item causes, whether it be a gun or knife.

You’d have a point if the UK murder rate was on par with that of the US. Fact is, its one fifth the rate (as with most western democracies), again as you well know.

Now imagine if there was only some way for the US to dramatically cut its homicide rate, based on overwhelmingly compelling, globally sourced and proven evidence. You’d think they’d have done it by now wouldn’t you? But no, “muh riiights, muh freedum, err jerbs” Uberalles!