Discussion
As much as a 'windfall tax' on energy supplies makes us all feel warm and snuggly, and lets not forget all those immigrants coming over here, taking our jobs and not paying tax, it seems to me that the reason our beloved country is on it's arse with everyone pointing at everyone else, maybe part of the reason is small trades people not paying tax?
A 'Cash price' seems to be on the table for I would estimate 90% of the jobs I've got quotes for in the last 10 years? I know it's not empirical but is it just me or do a huge number of local business people go.....
'Well mate, it's up to you if I pay tax, but if you want me to pay tax, then you can pay it for me and I'll increase the quote by 20%"
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I'm conscious that I don't want to fling around wild accusations, and obviously it's not everyone....
A 'Cash price' seems to be on the table for I would estimate 90% of the jobs I've got quotes for in the last 10 years? I know it's not empirical but is it just me or do a huge number of local business people go.....
'Well mate, it's up to you if I pay tax, but if you want me to pay tax, then you can pay it for me and I'll increase the quote by 20%"
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I'm conscious that I don't want to fling around wild accusations, and obviously it's not everyone....
TimmyMallett said:
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I'm conscious that I don't want to fling around wild accusations, and obviously it's not everyone....
This could be good. 
Wishing to add something more constructive, I would suggest the reason "the country is on it's arse" is more to do with the person in Number 10 than anyone doing a small number of cash jobs. How many small jobs would you need to do to pay for the 50m on the Garden Bridge for which not even a single brick was laid. Or the water cannons, imported at a cost of 250k, and then held in storage at the taxpayers expense for about a decade because they are illegal to use in the UK?
I'll rephrase that bit. I don't think the country is on it's arse really, its pretty good and there are lots of reasons not to be here and not, the states, for example 
But it seems that we all seem to a bit head-in-sand plus being a bit of a hypocrite given I haven't not had work done that I know full well isn't being declares as income.So I'm not pointing the finger at anyone else without pointing it at me but I must say it's a bit of an elephant in the room when it comes to any smaller trades I've used.
Many are not, and I've definitely used the proper VAT registered ones, but one man band ones, seem to pretty much have this business model.
So, what am I whining about? I'm not sure but it seem like I need to have a nice hot cup of STFU
But it seems that we all seem to a bit head-in-sand plus being a bit of a hypocrite given I haven't not had work done that I know full well isn't being declares as income.So I'm not pointing the finger at anyone else without pointing it at me but I must say it's a bit of an elephant in the room when it comes to any smaller trades I've used.
Many are not, and I've definitely used the proper VAT registered ones, but one man band ones, seem to pretty much have this business model.
So, what am I whining about? I'm not sure but it seem like I need to have a nice hot cup of STFU
For all the small tradesmen I've used I've only been offered a cash discount a few times. The rest have invoiced correctly and been paid through bank transfers.
At the height of lockdown taxi drivers were still insisting on cash. That was when at the point of booking card payment was stipulated and they had card facilities. Too many excuses and a ATM on route they knew of.
At the height of lockdown taxi drivers were still insisting on cash. That was when at the point of booking card payment was stipulated and they had card facilities. Too many excuses and a ATM on route they knew of.
I know trades people that like cash I also know many that don't and want to provide an invoice and to have the money transferred directly into their business account, I also know many people that want to pay cash to try and get a cheaper price so it's certainly not just on the trades side.
Putting aside the nonsense about foreigners in the OPs post, yes there are billions not paid in tax via the "how much for cash economy" but it takes two to tango and at least it all goes back into the economy so it's not lost to UKPLC.
Putting aside the nonsense about foreigners in the OPs post, yes there are billions not paid in tax via the "how much for cash economy" but it takes two to tango and at least it all goes back into the economy so it's not lost to UKPLC.
TimmyMallett said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Not flinging accusations around, but make it known that you blame illegal immigrants for a global problem
.
FFS I was quoting the Daily Mail in their never ending quest to look for someone to blame as to who is taking and not giving from society..
All seems a bit OT really.
In any case, I thought it was obvious from the tone that OP wasn't serious on the immigrants thing.
I think that small businesses that may or may not have the need to be VAT registered might prefer cash probably pales into insignificance against the likes of that whole Vodafone episode a few years ago, for example, in terms of the economy being affected by people not paying their share of tax.
Certainly paid cash for jobs to be done, but I suppose I'm accepting therefore that my PAYE is going to be higher than if the whole system was radically tightened up. I dunno. It's getting harder in any case - when you get an even moderately large amount of cash out of the bank these days, they want to know why for money laundering purposes, so unless you're saying 'paying a tradesman with cash', then you'll need to comfortable telling the odd porky pie along with the tax evasion.
In any case, I thought it was obvious from the tone that OP wasn't serious on the immigrants thing.
I think that small businesses that may or may not have the need to be VAT registered might prefer cash probably pales into insignificance against the likes of that whole Vodafone episode a few years ago, for example, in terms of the economy being affected by people not paying their share of tax.
Certainly paid cash for jobs to be done, but I suppose I'm accepting therefore that my PAYE is going to be higher than if the whole system was radically tightened up. I dunno. It's getting harder in any case - when you get an even moderately large amount of cash out of the bank these days, they want to know why for money laundering purposes, so unless you're saying 'paying a tradesman with cash', then you'll need to comfortable telling the odd porky pie along with the tax evasion.
I think my first paragraph broke the sarcasm meter and missed the mark entirely so apologies for that. I was trying to get to the point that there does seem to be a fairly endemic tax free way of living that we're all complicit with. It can't just be me that gets so many people offering to not pay tax to make life cheaper, or is this, in thr grand scheme of things, not really a great loss to the nations coffers?
If you find this offensive tyre smoke I think you need to get out more. You 'inferred', I didn't. I also didn't say or suggest that every manual worker is on the fiddle.
If you find this offensive tyre smoke I think you need to get out more. You 'inferred', I didn't. I also didn't say or suggest that every manual worker is on the fiddle.
TimmyMallett said:
As much as a 'windfall tax' on energy supplies makes us all feel warm and snuggly, and lets not forget all those immigrants coming over here, taking our jobs and not paying tax, it seems to me that the reason our beloved country is on it's arse with everyone pointing at everyone else, maybe part of the reason is small trades people not paying tax?
I'm sure the chance of evading tax has appealed to H. sapiens since Babylonian times, and is not dependent on the economic state of the country.A windfall tax doesn't make me feel warm and snuggly either, it's just a big version of 'This person has more money than me so I want some of it'. The crunch we're in now is what happens when globalisation goes wrong - and it's not just the UK.
Wait until China invades Taiwan... the global decision makers right now are Putin and the Chinese bloke. Not Biden who's way out of his depth, and certainly not Boris (or any other UK politician)
Tyre Smoke said:
You said 90% of the jobs you ask for have a cash price. You clearly inferred that self employed are wholsesale fiddling the tax man. That is simply untrue.
You infer. You're accusing me of suggesting, and inferring incorrectly. Anyway, maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick and misunderstood. As vat is charged on goods and services, if you're not vat registered, and I use your services, does vat not apply? And therefore a vat free service is not tax avoidance? Or does the person have to declare it as income and thus liable for income tax?
The 'black' economy is a huge benefit to the country, where do you think all this cash is spent? Most of what it is spent on is taxed, some of it at a higher rate than income tax.
I know plenty of 'cash' tradesman, they spend their money on drink, gambling, holidays, meals out (drink), food shopping (drink), golf (drink) going to football (drink) etc etc. All of which fuel the economy far more than tax payers leaving their money in a savings account.
I know plenty of 'cash' tradesman, they spend their money on drink, gambling, holidays, meals out (drink), food shopping (drink), golf (drink) going to football (drink) etc etc. All of which fuel the economy far more than tax payers leaving their money in a savings account.
Wacky Racer said:
My local Chinese chippy, which is extremely busy will only accept cash.
It's their business, their rules I suppose.
Punters always have the option of going elsewhere.
Takeaways were (well, still are) notorious for understating their income and staying below the VAT threshold. It's become increasing difficult with the establishment of Just eat, Deliveroo et al....all HMRC would need to do is ask for a download of their JE account and then match it against their bank statements It's their business, their rules I suppose.
Punters always have the option of going elsewhere.
megaphone said:
The 'black' economy is a huge benefit to the country, where do you think all this cash is spent? Most of what it is spent on is taxed, some of it at a higher rate than income tax.
I know plenty of 'cash' tradesman, they spend their money on drink, gambling, holidays, meals out (drink), food shopping (drink), golf (drink) going to football (drink) etc etc. All of which fuel the economy far more than tax payers leaving their money in a savings account.
Why wouldn't "cash tradesmen" also put some money into their savings account?I know plenty of 'cash' tradesman, they spend their money on drink, gambling, holidays, meals out (drink), food shopping (drink), golf (drink) going to football (drink) etc etc. All of which fuel the economy far more than tax payers leaving their money in a savings account.
The difference between "cash in hand" and taxed income is that a greater part of the "taxed income" is spent on schools, hospitals, roads, instead of RR Sports and holidays to Ibeefa. if the "black economy" was such a benefit to the Country then 3rd world countries would have amazing public infrastructure.
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