Central Bank Digital Currencies
Discussion
I've been convinced since late April/early May 2020 that our government's response to Covid didn't make much sense. I'm sure there's a few that'd disagree with me, but that discussion is really been overdone. Bottom line for me is that pretty much most of the world government's have responded in the same manner - thrown huge sums of money at it (and directed a fair amount of it into the laps of their citizens) whilst adopting extremely authoritarian positions.
Personally, I've considered their response and the manner in which it's been conducted both wrong and repugnant, but the question I've had since then is why? Why do that? Why respond in a way that literally tears up the pandemic response handbook that had been prepared years in advance?
All the events post Covid too? One could almost be forgiven for thinking a lot of it is by design - the s
t's hitting the fan in quite a few areas. Almost too conveniently I'd say - especially if orchestrating a desired outcome was your thing. Almost as if the domino's have been created and placed.
I'm really not into headwear, especially tinfoil hats, but I watched Joe Brown's latest video at Heresy Financial (whose content is first class by the way) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtNxyQMN76Y and thought yep mate, you are bang on the money.
Genuinely interested as to what others think.
Personally, I've considered their response and the manner in which it's been conducted both wrong and repugnant, but the question I've had since then is why? Why do that? Why respond in a way that literally tears up the pandemic response handbook that had been prepared years in advance?
All the events post Covid too? One could almost be forgiven for thinking a lot of it is by design - the s
t's hitting the fan in quite a few areas. Almost too conveniently I'd say - especially if orchestrating a desired outcome was your thing. Almost as if the domino's have been created and placed.I'm really not into headwear, especially tinfoil hats, but I watched Joe Brown's latest video at Heresy Financial (whose content is first class by the way) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtNxyQMN76Y and thought yep mate, you are bang on the money.
Genuinely interested as to what others think.
grumbledoak said:
Central Bank Digital Currencies are being investigated and trialled all over the world.
The government wants digital ID too.
Now, what possible use could these two be put to that is not available with cash?
Facilitating a tyrant's wet dreams would be my (and Joe's) realistic answer.The government wants digital ID too.
Now, what possible use could these two be put to that is not available with cash?
grumbledoak said:
dangerousB said:
Facilitating a tyrant's wet dreams would be my (and Joe's) realistic answer.
I struggle to see any possible upside for the general public.Are you obese… no fast food for you!
Climate breakdown avoidance… you have reached your carbon allowance for today, your fuel/energy will now cost double until midnight.
It’s a perfect system to nudge the behaviour of the public, for the good of the public!
Kawasicki said:
Loads of potential upsides for the public!
Are you obese… no fast food for you!
Climate breakdown avoidance… you have reached your carbon allowance for today, your fuel/energy will now cost double until midnight.
It’s a perfect system to nudge the behaviour of the public, for the good of the public!
Hope that's sarcasm Are you obese… no fast food for you!
Climate breakdown avoidance… you have reached your carbon allowance for today, your fuel/energy will now cost double until midnight.
It’s a perfect system to nudge the behaviour of the public, for the good of the public!
One significant part of CDBC is what's called programmable money. It's where the central bank can determine what the unit of money you have (i.e. one pound) can (or can't) be spent on. It'd seem like a bit of a nothingburger right now as most will earn their money and pay tax on a smallish (!) percentage of it all. But how it could (and I think will) go is that the government(s) will ramp up taxes and then distribute money to those who the government deem to require it (a la some Nordic countries) and, as it's money given to you by the government to help you exist, you'll then only be able to use it in the ways the government wishes.
The digital aspect is the obvious bit - the Central Bank bit means that all of your "savings" sit with the central bank (i.e. bank of England). You will borrow from retail lenders (not the central bank).
The digital aspect is the obvious bit - the Central Bank bit means that all of your "savings" sit with the central bank (i.e. bank of England). You will borrow from retail lenders (not the central bank).
rodericb said:
One significant part of CDBC is what's called programmable money. It's where the central bank can determine what the unit of money you have (i.e. one pound) can (or can't) be spent on. It'd seem like a bit of a nothingburger right now as most will earn their money and pay tax on a smallish (!) percentage of it all. But how it could (and I think will) go is that the government(s) will ramp up taxes and then distribute money to those who the government deem to require it (a la some Nordic countries) and, as it's money given to you by the government to help you exist, you'll then only be able to use it in the ways the government wishes.
The digital aspect is the obvious bit - the Central Bank bit means that all of your "savings" sit with the central bank (i.e. bank of England). You will borrow from retail lenders (not the central bank).
YesThe digital aspect is the obvious bit - the Central Bank bit means that all of your "savings" sit with the central bank (i.e. bank of England). You will borrow from retail lenders (not the central bank).
on the point of determining what you can and can't spend money on -
Microsoft have already developed a cryptocurrency which you earn by movement.
It would not surprise me if it turns out that fast food restaurants have a specific service ID associated with them and you can only buy a burger from McDonalds if you have a certain number of movement units...................
You think Black Mirror was just a fantasy.......
dangerousB said:
Kawasicki said:
Loads of potential upsides for the public!
Are you obese… no fast food for you!
Climate breakdown avoidance… you have reached your carbon allowance for today, your fuel/energy will now cost double until midnight.
It’s a perfect system to nudge the behaviour of the public, for the good of the public!
Hope that's sarcasm Are you obese… no fast food for you!
Climate breakdown avoidance… you have reached your carbon allowance for today, your fuel/energy will now cost double until midnight.
It’s a perfect system to nudge the behaviour of the public, for the good of the public!
rodericb said:
One significant part of CDBC is what's called programmable money. It's where the central bank can determine what the unit of money you have (i.e. one pound) can (or can't) be spent on.
In theory, it's an excellent idea and could do a lot of good. With an equitable body at the helm this could potentially be an absolutely brilliant way to run an economy. Same deal with ID cards - in isolation and in principle I don't really have any real problem with them.However, we don't have equitable people in power. We have puppets like Boris Johnson, Joe Biden, Justin Trudeau, Jacinda Ardern, Dan Andrews & Michael Gunner (to cherry pick just a few) running the show, If the past 2 and a bit years have taught me just one thing, it's that these people and more specifically, the people pulling their strings, cannot be trusted to do the right thing. At all.
Giving centralised power these sorts of tools is lunacy.
Limits on expenditure of benefits is already in place in the Peoples Republic of Australia via control of electronic money:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/fe...
And being forced to hand control of your (centrally controlled, digital) money is totally reasonable.
After all, it's not something that an abuser would do.
Oh, wait...
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/fe...
Guardian said:
As the Morrison government seeks support to expand the cashless debit card to the Northern Territory, it has also rebooted calls for a national expansion of the card.
While the government has previously focused on the card as a policy to reduce what it calls “welfare-fuelled alcohol, gambling and drug misuse”, now it is also arguing that it is a “broad financial and budgeting tool”.
While the government has previously focused on the card as a policy to reduce what it calls “welfare-fuelled alcohol, gambling and drug misuse”, now it is also arguing that it is a “broad financial and budgeting tool”.
Guardian said:
It quarantines 80% of a person’s income support payments. The money on the card cannot be used to withdraw cash from automatic teller machines or Eftpos terminals, or to buy alcohol, tobacco or gambling products. The rest is paid into their bank account as cash.
Guardian said:
Some online retailers and eBay are also banned. To purchase second-hand products from Facebook Marketplace, McNally said she was required to take a screenshot of the advertisement in question and make an application to Indue.
“Then you take these forms to Indue and say, “Can I please buy this item? It can be four days until they decide whether you can buy it or not,” said McNally, who joined a protest against the card in Canberra this week.
“Then you take these forms to Indue and say, “Can I please buy this item? It can be four days until they decide whether you can buy it or not,” said McNally, who joined a protest against the card in Canberra this week.
Guardian said:
In another alleged case, a nursing student on placement was unable to buy a stethoscope and university books from the Medshop. The submission claimed that Indue staff said she could not buy those things as she may be trying to buy hand sanitisers to drink.
Involuntarily ceding control of your own life is for your own good, of course.And being forced to hand control of your (centrally controlled, digital) money is totally reasonable.
After all, it's not something that an abuser would do.
Oh, wait...
RSTurboPaul said:
Limits on expenditure of benefits is already in place in the Peoples Republic of Australia via control of electronic money:
....
What is chicken, and what is egg?....
Cash provided to look after kids. Kids still going hungry (/starving - choose terminology preference).
Cash provided to pay rent. Rent in arrears.
Next will be cash provided to help with energy payments. People feeling cold.
I'm not a fan of cash benefits for the above reasons.
The "cash" being provided is not free. Not by a very long way. And yet those who do pay for it, have to sit by and watch the problems continue while more and more of their cash is poured into it. We have become way too fixated on "choice" and "it's degrading not to trust adults with money". Where help is needed, provide it, and do what you can to ensure the help provided goes towards the help that is needed. Choice is expensive and can be had pretty easily.
Limit the "limit what money can be spent on" to taxation hand outs and I am all for it.
Transgress into "man in the street spending his own cash" and I will join in painting up a placard and marching on da man.
I did a thread about CBDCs not too long ago and generally speaking they should be opposed. Any MP or party that you notice taking a soft spot for them, please vote elsewhere.
CBDCs are a form of control, they are a gift to the likes of authoritarian government mindsets and they will remove personal freedoms, even though they will be advertised as "this will be good for you" by those with the agenda of wanting to implement them.
The "programmability" of such a currency will mean, as already pointed out in this thread, that government agendas will have the ability to dictate/restrict personal choice.
This will come in the form of things like putting an expiry date on your hard earnt, if government of the day decide you are not allowed to save up for something. Also as mentioned previously, there can be restrictions put on the currency in terms of quotas/rationing, meaning that the individual may not be allowed to spend money on what they want, or will come with an automatically added 'tax' if you buy something that the government of the day think you should not.
Any freedom loving person should be vigorously against CBDCs.
CBDCs are a form of control, they are a gift to the likes of authoritarian government mindsets and they will remove personal freedoms, even though they will be advertised as "this will be good for you" by those with the agenda of wanting to implement them.
The "programmability" of such a currency will mean, as already pointed out in this thread, that government agendas will have the ability to dictate/restrict personal choice.
This will come in the form of things like putting an expiry date on your hard earnt, if government of the day decide you are not allowed to save up for something. Also as mentioned previously, there can be restrictions put on the currency in terms of quotas/rationing, meaning that the individual may not be allowed to spend money on what they want, or will come with an automatically added 'tax' if you buy something that the government of the day think you should not.
Any freedom loving person should be vigorously against CBDCs.
Warning - anacdote alert:
I'm very close to someone who's very close to senior members at the Fed who believe that there will be CBDC's inside 10 years, and are currently taking steps to divest cash into physical assets. I know for certain that they're buying physical assets in the UK because I'm helping them do that.
I don't know why they're divesting but assume that they think cash will take a hit. Could be wrong though.
I'm very close to someone who's very close to senior members at the Fed who believe that there will be CBDC's inside 10 years, and are currently taking steps to divest cash into physical assets. I know for certain that they're buying physical assets in the UK because I'm helping them do that.
I don't know why they're divesting but assume that they think cash will take a hit. Could be wrong though.
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