Why does the RAF protect Ireland for free ?
Discussion
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-fig...
Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
Ayahuasca said:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-fig...
Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
Ireland are doing us a favour by preventing Russian aircraft from lurking around in an adjacent airspace, which the RAF might not otherwise have access to. Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
Ayahuasca said:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-fig...
Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
Sorry if this comes across as snippy - but did you actually read the 'interesting article'? Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
It answers your question exactly; namely that the UK isn't really 'defending Irish airspace' - it is defending UK airspace and protecting Irish airspace as a happy byproduct.
UK Defence Journal said:
Make no mistake, the UK is not selflessly defending Irish airspace as this agreement is mutually beneficial to both states. Due to the speed of modern aircraft, the UK needs to be able to intercept aircraft even as far southwest as Ireland.
The ability of RAF aircraft to transit the Irish FIR (and Irish sovereign airspace) incurs no extra cost to the RAF (aircraft on permanent standby to intercept potentially hostile/unknown aircraft would exist regardless) and access to Irish-controlled airspace allows those RAF aircraft to operate more effectively and efficiently. The Irish are doing us as much of a favour as we are them. Newarch said:
The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
Indeed - something that people from both nations sometimes seem to forget (or find it convenient to ignore). As can be seen in the recent incident in Cork where a campaigner/former councillor tried to get up the gangway of HMS Enterprise which was visiting the port (https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/former-politician-is-arrested-after-attempting-to-get-on-board-royal-navy-warship-hms-enterprise-in-ireland-3736850).
The twitter comments especially show a remarkable level of ignorance on both sides - the Royal Navy's survey ships do a lot of hydrographical and oceanographic work in the Western Approaches, as well as guarding/inspecting submarine communications cables and keeping tabs on Russian 'trawlers' with suspicious numbers of radio masts - such work is obviously of great benefit to the RN/UK but also to Ireland, and it is work that the INS cannot reasonably be expected to carry out with its own resources. In return the INS patrol ships take a lot of work in the customs/fishery protection/picket vessels roles that would otherwise fall on the RN, especially now our OPVs are being deployed globally.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Monday 20th June 12:07
Newarch said:
Ireland are doing us a favour by preventing Russian aircraft from lurking around in an adjacent airspace, which the RAF might not otherwise have access to.
The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
I think I read some funny accounts of downed allied and German airmen who were kept in Irish pow camps during the war. It spoke about the Brits and the Germans meeting in town pub. The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
Maybe it was a weird dream or something.
Why bother. If Ireland refused to pay it, would the RAF stop running the patrols?
Also, it's highly likely that Russian patrols that skirt around the north and west coastlines of Ireland are probing British air defences - not Irish air defences. To be honest, Ireland does not have any air defences of any significance so Britain is really looking after its own interests first (and there is nothing wrong with that).
Also, Ireland grants airspace access to British military aircraft - especially when it comes to assistance in search and rescue operations. Back in the 1980s one day when I was in my back garden in Dublin, a yellow RAF Westland Wessex (22 Squadron from RAF Valley in North Wales) flew low over my house on its way into Dublin Airport carrying a casualty they had picked up from a ship in the Irish Sea to the nearest hospital - which happened to be Dublin.
Much of the North Atlantic rescue services are co-ordinated through Shannon - so the Irish do provide services to the UK (and any other nation for that matter) with no charges.
Also, it's highly likely that Russian patrols that skirt around the north and west coastlines of Ireland are probing British air defences - not Irish air defences. To be honest, Ireland does not have any air defences of any significance so Britain is really looking after its own interests first (and there is nothing wrong with that).
Also, Ireland grants airspace access to British military aircraft - especially when it comes to assistance in search and rescue operations. Back in the 1980s one day when I was in my back garden in Dublin, a yellow RAF Westland Wessex (22 Squadron from RAF Valley in North Wales) flew low over my house on its way into Dublin Airport carrying a casualty they had picked up from a ship in the Irish Sea to the nearest hospital - which happened to be Dublin.
Much of the North Atlantic rescue services are co-ordinated through Shannon - so the Irish do provide services to the UK (and any other nation for that matter) with no charges.
Ayahuasca said:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-fig...
Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
Quid pro quo:Interesting article on the RAF intercepting Russian planes that the Irish airforce cannot. Obviously there is a benefit to the UK in doing so, but there is also a benefit to Ireland that is provided for free.
Should the UK not present a bill to Ireland for this service?
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/victory-for-defiant...
We stop the Russian jets, Irish fishermen stop the Russian ships.
El stovey said:
Newarch said:
Ireland are doing us a favour by preventing Russian aircraft from lurking around in an adjacent airspace, which the RAF might not otherwise have access to.
The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
I think I read some funny accounts of downed allied and German airmen who were kept in Irish pow camps during the war. It spoke about the Brits and the Germans meeting in town pub. The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
Maybe it was a weird dream or something.
https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-mos...
Andy 308GTB said:
El stovey said:
Newarch said:
Ireland are doing us a favour by preventing Russian aircraft from lurking around in an adjacent airspace, which the RAF might not otherwise have access to.
The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
I think I read some funny accounts of downed allied and German airmen who were kept in Irish pow camps during the war. It spoke about the Brits and the Germans meeting in town pub. The UK and Ireland have quite a long history of military co-operation one way or another which still continues into the modern era, with Irish personnel still serving in the UK armed forces.
Maybe it was a weird dream or something.
https://forthelifeofme-film.com/2019/07/30/the-mos...
That article is worth a read everyone.
My mum’s family ran a fish and chip shop in London’s East End. After getting bombed out they evacuated to Hoddesdon in Hertfordshire, and salvaged enough equipment to open a shop there. There were several POW camps in the area.
German and Italian POW’s were allowed out during the day time, some were even billeted on farms to help with the crops. Mum once told me that it was not unusual to look up from the shop counter and see a queue of German, Italian and British soldiers, in uniform, all standing in line patiently waiting for their chips.
German and Italian POW’s were allowed out during the day time, some were even billeted on farms to help with the crops. Mum once told me that it was not unusual to look up from the shop counter and see a queue of German, Italian and British soldiers, in uniform, all standing in line patiently waiting for their chips.
Eric Mc said:
Much of the North Atlantic rescue services are co-ordinated through Shannon - so the Irish do provide services to the UK (and any other nation for that matter) with no charges.
That’s incorrect, most of the North Atlantic is covered by the UK. 
The Irish Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre is at Dublin
With sub centres at Valentia and Malin Head.
The Aeronautical Rescue Coordination Centres are Dublin and Shannon but they have very limited assets and since the SAR crash a few years ago have lost all appetite to do pretty much anything that involves losing site of land (slight exaggeration there).
However you will often find Irish SAR helicopters in the Mourne mountains NI as they are the nearest asset, likewise if the UK has the most suitable asset for any neighbouring country then they will provide assistance.
Eric Mc said:
Why bother. If Ireland refused to pay it, would the RAF stop running the patrols?
Also, it's highly likely that Russian patrols that skirt around the north and west coastlines of Ireland are probing British air defences - not Irish air defences. To be honest, Ireland does not have any air defences of any significance so Britain is really looking after its own interests first (and there is nothing wrong with that).
The UK is for sure looking after its own interest first, but it is also providing a service to Ireland that is not paid for. It is not unreasonable to ask Ireland for a contribution. Ireland is presumably happy to benefit from NATO protection without having to put a hand in its pocket for it. Also, it's highly likely that Russian patrols that skirt around the north and west coastlines of Ireland are probing British air defences - not Irish air defences. To be honest, Ireland does not have any air defences of any significance so Britain is really looking after its own interests first (and there is nothing wrong with that).
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...
Ayahuasca said:
Eric Mc said:
Why bother. If Ireland refused to pay it, would the RAF stop running the patrols?
Also, it's highly likely that Russian patrols that skirt around the north and west coastlines of Ireland are probing British air defences - not Irish air defences. To be honest, Ireland does not have any air defences of any significance so Britain is really looking after its own interests first (and there is nothing wrong with that).
The UK is for sure looking after its own interest first, but it is also providing a service to Ireland that is not paid for. It is not unreasonable to ask Ireland for a contribution. Ireland is presumably happy to benefit from NATO protection without having to put a hand in its pocket for it. Also, it's highly likely that Russian patrols that skirt around the north and west coastlines of Ireland are probing British air defences - not Irish air defences. To be honest, Ireland does not have any air defences of any significance so Britain is really looking after its own interests first (and there is nothing wrong with that).
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...
Ayahuasca said:
The UK is for sure looking after its own interest first, but it is also providing a service to Ireland that is not paid for. It is not unreasonable to ask Ireland for a contribution. Ireland is presumably happy to benefit from NATO protection without having to put a hand in its pocket for it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...
Nope - it is totally unreasonable because the UK is obtaining many benefits for nothing too. It's a quid pro quo arrangement which has worked for decades.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...
Ayahuasca said:
The UK is for sure looking after its own interest first, but it is also providing a service to Ireland that is not paid for. It is not unreasonable to ask Ireland for a contribution. Ireland is presumably happy to benefit from NATO protection without having to put a hand in its pocket for it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...
The 'contribution' the Irish provide is allowing RAF aircraft access to their airspace, which allows them to do their job (for the UK's benefit...and Ireland's as almost a byproduct, since no one is actually probing Ireland's air defences - they're probing the UK's via Ireland) which allows the RAF to do their primary job of protecting the UK's airspace much more effectively than they otherwise could. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...
There's mutual back-scratching going on in broader defence matters to: the Irish Naval Service do a lot of work in the Western Approaches that would otherwise fall to the RN's hard-pressed OPVs and frigates. I suppose we could bill them for the RAF QRA activity, and they could bill us for the fishery protection and shadowing Russian ships in the Western Approaches. Or we could each do both to our mutual benefit without worrying too much about the bills?
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