SAS alleged unlawful killings
Discussion
Looks like the BBC have been tenacious and doing exactly what they should be whilst the government tries to palm them off: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62083196
Doesn’t look good at all.
Pretty stupid to try the same MO every time.
“Oh we took a detained person back in the house and he pulled a gun / grenade every time. It kept happening and we didn’t think to keen them restrained so it wouldn’t happen so many times…”
Hopefully it’ll be looked at seriously.
Doesn’t look good at all.
Pretty stupid to try the same MO every time.
“Oh we took a detained person back in the house and he pulled a gun / grenade every time. It kept happening and we didn’t think to keen them restrained so it wouldn’t happen so many times…”
Hopefully it’ll be looked at seriously.
The squadron involve should be invested and dealt with appropriately, but is not the major problem here. The failure of leadership is the real problem. I can see how in a war zone individuals or small groups can start doing unacceptable and abhorrent things. It shouldn’t happen, but I can see how it does. The leadership should be aware of this and deal swiftly with any problems before they get out of hand (I.e. deal with problematic behaviour before it leads to war crimes). It seems leadership were, if not complicit, then wilfully ignorant to the point of negligence.
Electro1980 said:
The leadership should be aware of this and deal swiftly with any problems before they get out of hand (I.e. deal with problematic behaviour before it leads to war crimes). It seems leadership were, if not complicit, then wilfully ignorant to the point of negligence.
Isn’t that the thing with the SAS and the likes, they are the thinking solider and left alone to do the thing they do best?Who do they really answer to?
biggbn said:
Someone will be along to defend anytime now....
Ok I will, because:"may have"
"evidence suggesting"
"alleged"
In 2014, the RMP launched Operation Northmoor, a wide-ranging investigation .. Operation Northmoor was wound down in 2017 and eventually closed in 2019. The Ministry of Defence has said that no evidence of criminality was found.
TheRainMaker said:
Electro1980 said:
The leadership should be aware of this and deal swiftly with any problems before they get out of hand (I.e. deal with problematic behaviour before it leads to war crimes). It seems leadership were, if not complicit, then wilfully ignorant to the point of negligence.
Isn’t that the thing with the SAS and the likes, they are the thinking solider and left alone to do the thing they do best?Who do they really answer to?
It's like we never learned the lessons of having the military involved in policing duties in Northern Ireland.
Been going on since day dot. Nearly happened during Op Nimrod with millions watching.
A well known SF unit (not the SAS) had a KIA board if Afghan with lots of names on it.
Every night when they would go out on a mission they would take the unit patch and/or name patch of a soldier who was KIA off the board.
If you had cause to get an enemy kill they would then normally take that patch or name patch and move it from the "KIA" board to the "avenged" board when you returned.
It was not uncommon for a photograph to be taken and for that to be given to team mates / battle buddies etc.
A well known SF unit (not the SAS) had a KIA board if Afghan with lots of names on it.
Every night when they would go out on a mission they would take the unit patch and/or name patch of a soldier who was KIA off the board.
If you had cause to get an enemy kill they would then normally take that patch or name patch and move it from the "KIA" board to the "avenged" board when you returned.
It was not uncommon for a photograph to be taken and for that to be given to team mates / battle buddies etc.
Electro1980 said:
The squadron involve should be invested and dealt with appropriately, but is not the major problem here. The failure of leadership is the real problem. I can see how in a war zone individuals or small groups can start doing unacceptable and abhorrent things. It shouldn’t happen, but I can see how it does. The leadership should be aware of this and deal swiftly with any problems before they get out of hand (I.e. deal with problematic behaviour before it leads to war crimes). It seems leadership were, if not complicit, then wilfully ignorant to the point of negligence.
Alternative view - Could it be that they are just following leadership orders?
Or Have I read too many Andy McNab/Chris Ryan books?
wong said:
Electro1980 said:
The squadron involve should be invested and dealt with appropriately, but is not the major problem here. The failure of leadership is the real problem. I can see how in a war zone individuals or small groups can start doing unacceptable and abhorrent things. It shouldn’t happen, but I can see how it does. The leadership should be aware of this and deal swiftly with any problems before they get out of hand (I.e. deal with problematic behaviour before it leads to war crimes). It seems leadership were, if not complicit, then wilfully ignorant to the point of negligence.
Alternative view - Could it be that they are just following leadership orders?
Or Have I read too many Andy McNab/Chris Ryan books?
130R said:
biggbn said:
Someone will be along to defend anytime now....
Ok I will, because:"may have"
"evidence suggesting"
"alleged"
In 2014, the RMP launched Operation Northmoor, a wide-ranging investigation .. Operation Northmoor was wound down in 2017 and eventually closed in 2019. The Ministry of Defence has said that no evidence of criminality was found.
BBC said:
An operations officer emailed a colleague to say that "for what must be the 10th time in the last two weeks" the squadron had sent a detainee back into a building "and he reappeared with an AK".
"Then when they walked back in to a different A [building] with another B [fighting-age male] to open the curtains he grabbed a grenade from behind a curtain and threw it at the c/s [SAS assault team]. Fortunately, it didn't go off…. this is the 8th time this has happened... You couldn't MAKE IT UP!"
It's clear that concerns were raised at the time and brushed under the carpet. The BBC aren't known for making unsubstantiated claims so at this stage I wouldn't be so bullish that the MoD investigated this fully and impartially."Then when they walked back in to a different A [building] with another B [fighting-age male] to open the curtains he grabbed a grenade from behind a curtain and threw it at the c/s [SAS assault team]. Fortunately, it didn't go off…. this is the 8th time this has happened... You couldn't MAKE IT UP!"
Now I've never been in the armed forces and I've definitely never had to face going into enemy territory to retrieve people who are more than likely going to kill me if they see me. But at the end of the day the whole point of operations like Afghanistan is that we are meant to be better than the terrorists. And things like this bring the entirety of the operation into disrepute and just give fuel to those who say we should keep our noses out of other countries' business.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Similar happened with Aus SAS a while back.
Read that this morning... Some pretty damming claims being made.
The Aus thing was way worse. As bad as this is they did at least *think* they were killing bombmakers (which is no excuse). The Aus guys were randomly killing for fun.Read that this morning... Some pretty damming claims being made.
Portofino said:
Oh dear, woke BBC trying to infect the special forces. When will they stop, when soldiers are only allowed spud guns?
This sort of thing is nothing new.
I will never, ever get the - 'they are wearing a uniform so are therefore magically exempt from committing any type of crime' that so often gets rolled out. This sort of thing is nothing new.
If allegations like this are true and provable then nail them to the wall just like anyone else.
bloomen said:
I will never, ever get the - 'they are wearing a uniform so are therefore magically exempt from committing any type of crime' that so often gets rolled out.
If allegations like this are true and provable then nail them to the wall just like anyone else.
They've been thoroughly investigated and found to have no substance.If allegations like this are true and provable then nail them to the wall just like anyone else.
But some still want them nailed to the wall. Just in case, because someone alleged something, somewhere, sometime
Elroy Blue said:
bloomen said:
I will never, ever get the - 'they are wearing a uniform so are therefore magically exempt from committing any type of crime' that so often gets rolled out.
If allegations like this are true and provable then nail them to the wall just like anyone else.
They've been thoroughly investigated and found to have no substance.If allegations like this are true and provable then nail them to the wall just like anyone else.
But some still want them nailed to the wall. Just in case, because someone alleged something, somewhere, sometime
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