Telford, Oldham etc. Child grooming
Discussion
I don't think it is right for PH to censor this discussion.
The previous one on this topic was displaying a consensus within PH contributors on this forum that there was strong feeling that something needed to be done. And then as we see similar happening from the police and council authorities in numerous northern towns, the issue is quietly sept under the carpet. The previous thread similarly was silently deleted.
Well I think this is not acceptable. The issue needs exposure and needs to be discussed.
The UK has a serious problem in society and it seems via lack of willingness due a fear of being labelled racist, the police and authority institutions that are suppose to support society are very much letting it down, especially so for the lives of many young girls who have been raped specifically for their ethnicity. In fact these institutions, by doing little to nothing about the abhorrent behaviour of certain cultural background groups(1), is acting in an abhorrent complicit manner which I think everyone in society needs to stand up to and make sure the correct level of justice is applied to not only the religious group members committing these crimes, but also the authorities that have not taken control through their inability to apply the simply notion that race nor religion does not give the individual a right to commit abhorrent crimes of any nature.
(1) the usual caveat here is that of course not all Muslims are part of these abhorrent child rape crime gangs, the majority of Muslims in fact are good law abiding citizens who are welcome and valued in the UK, the UK is indeed the home and birthplace of many Muslims here in our part of the world, but it does have to be acknowledged that Muslim men, mainly from Pakistan, are hugely disproportionality represented in these abhorrent crimes within northern towns in the UK, and this issue needs to be discussed and needs to be addressed. Because I'm sure I am not the only person on PH who has family members whether close or distant, who are young girls, who simply want to be able to go about their lives in urban or rural environments without fear of being specifically targeted for rape. This issue should be high on many in society for it to be resolved as soon as possible. Censoring the issue will not make it go away.
The previous one on this topic was displaying a consensus within PH contributors on this forum that there was strong feeling that something needed to be done. And then as we see similar happening from the police and council authorities in numerous northern towns, the issue is quietly sept under the carpet. The previous thread similarly was silently deleted.
Well I think this is not acceptable. The issue needs exposure and needs to be discussed.
The UK has a serious problem in society and it seems via lack of willingness due a fear of being labelled racist, the police and authority institutions that are suppose to support society are very much letting it down, especially so for the lives of many young girls who have been raped specifically for their ethnicity. In fact these institutions, by doing little to nothing about the abhorrent behaviour of certain cultural background groups(1), is acting in an abhorrent complicit manner which I think everyone in society needs to stand up to and make sure the correct level of justice is applied to not only the religious group members committing these crimes, but also the authorities that have not taken control through their inability to apply the simply notion that race nor religion does not give the individual a right to commit abhorrent crimes of any nature.
(1) the usual caveat here is that of course not all Muslims are part of these abhorrent child rape crime gangs, the majority of Muslims in fact are good law abiding citizens who are welcome and valued in the UK, the UK is indeed the home and birthplace of many Muslims here in our part of the world, but it does have to be acknowledged that Muslim men, mainly from Pakistan, are hugely disproportionality represented in these abhorrent crimes within northern towns in the UK, and this issue needs to be discussed and needs to be addressed. Because I'm sure I am not the only person on PH who has family members whether close or distant, who are young girls, who simply want to be able to go about their lives in urban or rural environments without fear of being specifically targeted for rape. This issue should be high on many in society for it to be resolved as soon as possible. Censoring the issue will not make it go away.
There was a news article earlier this week where an Afghan refugee sexually assaulted 2 young girls and raped a young boy in France. His 'excuse' to the police was that its normal to have sex with young boys where he was from and he didn't know it was illegal!
Telford, Oldham etc are a national disgrace and should be treated in such a way that EVERYONE involved, be it offenders, police, government / council officials and social workers that turned a blind eye are prosecuted and really made an example of.
Telford, Oldham etc are a national disgrace and should be treated in such a way that EVERYONE involved, be it offenders, police, government / council officials and social workers that turned a blind eye are prosecuted and really made an example of.
Edited by Four Litre on Friday 15th July 09:57
I am a criminal defence solicitor in a dull northern town.
Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
Pat H said:
I am a criminal defence solicitor in a dull northern town.
Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
really? they haven't really made the newsOver the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
Pat H said:
I am a criminal defence solicitor in a dull northern town.
Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
I don't think it has ever been a case of many liking to suggest at all. The whole issue at hand is a deplorable thing conducted by the perpetrators and the lack of action from local authorities and something that I would suggest nobody "likes" to talk about, but we are having to talk about it due to the state that it has spiraled in to.Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
If you have a different picture then thanks for sharing that with the thread. It all goes to offer balance. But there is a strong picture given to us by media and by locals in those areas that are mostly affected that strongly points the finger towards certain groups that are committing these rapes. You mention grooming, but is that the same for rapes? (or is this a term that is interchangeable when it gets to court?)
Would there be such a thing as published statistics on this which would break down the number of rapes per area and by ethnicity? If for nothing else to support the argument that these crimes are not mostly coming from certain cultures/ethnicities?
GroundZero said:
Pat H said:
I am a criminal defence solicitor in a dull northern town.
Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
If you have a different picture then thanks for sharing that with the thread. It all goes to offer balance. But there is a strong picture given to us by media and by locals in those areas that are mostly affected that strongly points the finger towards certain groups that are committing these rapes. You mention grooming, but is that the same for rapes? (or is this a term that is interchangeable when it gets to court?)Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
Almost all of the defendants that I have represented who faced grooming allegations have been white males. Overwhelmingly, they seem to have been acting alone, rather as part of a group or gang. Abhorrent though their behaviour was, it was not as newsworthy, or concerning, as where grooming occurred as part of an organised gang or ring.
In my 25 years I have only represented one defendant who has been part of an organised grooming gang. He was white. As were the co-defendants.
But this may not be so surprising, for I am a honky.
There is a likelihood that a defendant from a particular ethnic minority may prefer to instruct a solicitor of the same ethnicity, especially in a town or city with a large ethnic minority population.
Pat H said:
I am a criminal defence solicitor in a dull northern town.
Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
Not wishing to accent the stereotype, but aren't they all dull? Over the last 25 years I have represented countless defendants in grooming cases.
For the sake of balanced debate I should point out that the overwhelming majority of them have been white males.
The cynic may suggest that this itself reflects inaction by the police and local authorities against offenders from ethnic minorities. I am not so sure.
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
Just kidding, interesting insight.
On the wider topic of the ethnicity of offenders (not specifically your points), I'd suggest there is a notion/perception that the groups in question are a result of a relatively large influx of foreign nationals, having a vastly different culture, placed into established communities, not integrating, remaining insular.
I've had discussions where people from India have commented on the equivalent of the chav in the UK are similar over there & many arrived here. But that's not unlike the establishment of council estates in the 60s, a relatively sudden influx of outsiders to an area, the common factor being locals generally don't have a say. That sentiment is also often cited.
As Stevie Bee says, it's complex. I don't agree that the religious aspect is irrelevant, but I don't think it's purely "Muslim", perhaps more with a small 'm'. Safe to say, it's not unexpected for communities from across the planet to have equal numbers of wrong uns in their midst.
What I find equally depressing, is the apparent enabling provided by those tasked with prevention & policing such things. The cracks in some parts of society are more fissure-like.
On another note, a common occurrence with these discussions is the rapid decline into cries of racism & abuse from from/between participants. Maybe this one will be different, if everyone can be civil.
Pat H said:
My (purely anecdotal and entirely subjective) experience over a very long time suggests that the link between certain ethnic minorities and child sex offending is nothing like as strong as many would like to suggest.
I don't think the issue is whether there's a link or not (I would say there is none) between ethnicity and likeliness of being an offender. The issue is with the police NOT investigating (or not as rigorously as they should) based on alleged perpetrators ethnicity.
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