M62 - would it get built today?

[Dog Star]

I live not far from Saddleworth Moor and this morning was looking at interesting mountain bike routes for the weekend, which got me looking on the map and one thing led to another looking at pictures and articles on the building of the M62 over the Pennines.

There's some fascinating stuff...

Pics ... https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire...

Videos - the chief engineer was 28!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcabV_j4hEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvAup_1Ljag

I spent 30 years driving to work and back over there, rain (usually), shine, snow. It's a beautiful stretch of road.

However, it does make me wonder if we have completely lost, as a nation, the ability (or the drive) to do stuff like this anymore. If this were attempted now I don't think it would happen for various reasons...

- NIMBYism
- huge sums would be sunk into public inquiries and so on
- eco-protesters
- digging up peat bogs
- it's in the North
- NIMBYism (worth saying twice)
- would encourage car use - environmental impact
- ramblers

Costs would spiral out of control (see any other project ever undertaken, channel tunnel, Elizabeth line, HS2).
It's a bit sad, really.

Anyway - the pics are fascinating if you are into "that kind of thing" - a true civil engineering triumph.

[GeniusOfLove]

No, there is no chance we'd build anything like that in the current climate. Look what a buggers muddle all 9 miles of the Newbury bypass was to get built, and things haven't improved since then.

Brilliant story though, and a fabulous road.

[Pent]

this is why other countries have overtaken us in civil engineering all those reasons

[brillomaster]

i think it would get built. i cant see in this day and age having two sides of the country separated by such a degree that all traffic would need to try and get across on one of the small A roads. and rochdale to huddersfield is only 20 miles, thats not that far in the grand scheme of engineering projects, in my opinion.

[Phil.]

HS2 is the current equivalent (ish) project but that’s for trains so it’s ok…….

Edited to say that HS2 is no longer for the north!

Edited by Phil. on Friday 19th January 14:25

[Joeywinkle]

Would love to know how they undertake principal inspections of Scammonden. Seems too high for MEWP access and underbridge unit would only allow you to cover the central sections. My guess would be a combination of underbridge unit and roped access but if anyone knows let me know!

[s p a c e m a n]

Living near to the Lower Thames Crossing I've become immune to the constant articles about it but one of the recent ones just left me speechless. It was along the the lines of the world's longest road tunnel is in Norway and cost £90m and the planning application so far for the Thames Crossing is 3000 pages long and has cost £250m. That's just the planning cost so far, they haven't started construction on the tunnel

[Dog Star]

brillomaster said:

i think it would get built. i cant see in this day and age having two sides of the country separated by such a degree that all traffic would need to try and get across on one of the small A roads. and rochdale to huddersfield is only 20 miles, thats not that far in the grand scheme of engineering projects, in my opinion.

I don’t know - look at the equivalent rail route - I wfh now but when I go to the office I use the train. 75 minutes. No investment. No plans to improve. No cares there about splitting the country in two (see my point - it’s The North)

[chrispmartha]

Dog Star said:

I live not far from Saddleworth Moor and this morning was looking at interesting mountain bike routes for the weekend, which got me looking on the map and one thing led to another looking at pictures and articles on the building of the M62 over the Pennines.

There's some fascinating stuff...

Pics ... https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire...

Videos - the chief engineer was 28!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcabV_j4hEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvAup_1Ljag

I spent 30 years driving to work and back over there, rain (usually), shine, snow. It's a beautiful stretch of road.

However, it does make me wonder if we have completely lost, as a nation, the ability (or the drive) to do stuff like this anymore. If this were attempted now I don't think it would happen for various reasons...

- NIMBYism
- huge sums would be sunk into public inquiries and so on
- eco-protesters
- digging up peat bogs
- it's in the North
- NIMBYism (worth saying twice)
- would encourage car use - environmental impact
- ramblers

Costs would spiral out of control (see any other project ever undertaken, channel tunnel, Elizabeth line, HS2).
It's a bit sad, really.

Anyway - the pics are fascinating if you are into "that kind of thing" - a true civil engineering triumph.

Interesting thanks for posting.

You mentioned NIMBYs, of course there is literally a section that is built in someone’s back yard! I think its an urban myth that the person who owned it refused to sell the house and land? Not sure on the real story.

It’s a nightmare motorway in rush hour but that stretch going through the moors (and other parts) is actually a really scenic drive

[Dog Star]

chrispmartha said:

Interesting thanks for posting.

You mentioned NIMBYs, of course there is literally a section that is built in someone’s back yard! I think its an urban myth that the person who owned it refused to sell the house and land? Not sure on the real story.

It’s a nightmare motorway in rush hour but that stretch going through the moors (and other parts) is actually a really scenic drive

My dad used to go to that farm (he was a vet) back in the day.

The story that the farmer refused to move is an urban myth.

The reason the motorway splits around it is simply geology.

[S600BSB]

I much prefer the A635 over the Pennines to Greenfield. Do that journey regularly.

[MustangGT]

No, it would not get built, it is north of Watford.

[gazza285]

chrispmartha said:

Interesting thanks for posting.

You mentioned NIMBYs, of course there is literally a section that is built in someone’s back yard! I think its an urban myth that the person who owned it refused to sell the house and land? Not sure on the real story.

It’s a nightmare motorway in rush hour but that stretch going through the moors (and other parts) is actually a really scenic drive

The motorway went through lots of people’s back yards in the village where I grew up, Outlane. There’s a few farms that ended up with the farmhouse on one side and the fields on the other, one of which was my grandfather’s. He was compensated for the loss of land, but not for making the farm completely unviable. He sold the what was then seen as a worthless farmhouse and outbuildings for a pittance to the local golf club, which had also ended up with the clubhouse on one side, and the links on the other. He remained bitter about this until his death.

The local petrol stations and garages didn’t fare much better, one managed to keep going for a few years, but closed eventually. It’s still there, but falling into disrepair.

[Harpoon]

Given it's costing £1billion for 10 miles of dual carriageway between MK / Cambridge / Bedford, I wonder how much it would cost today.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/works-to-start-...

[Sebring440]

s p a c e m a n said:

the world's longest road tunnel is in Norway and cost £90m and the planning application so far for the Thames Crossing is 3000 pages long and has cost £250m. That's just the planning cost so far, they haven't started construction on the tunnel

Is Nok 1050 million the sme as £90 million?

[Dog Star]

gazza285 said:

The local petrol stations and garages didn’t fare much better, one managed to keep going for a few years, but closed eventually. It’s still there, but falling into disrepair.

I love that building, the lovely old verandah.

[Earthdweller]

Dog Star said:

I live not far from Saddleworth Moor …. I spent 30 years driving to work and back over there, rain (usually), shine, snow. It's a beautiful stretch of road.

Not sure if you’ve seen this video, but I’m sure you recognise most of the locations and how brutal the M62 can be in winter and just how challenging.. fabulous time warp video

https://youtu.be/qvw9DNQWymo?si=7r9ouRlvK-NoU61L

[Russ35]

An episode of a 1983 Yorkshire TV show about the M62 farm house.

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-farm...

[JuanCarlosFandango]

If we had the appetite and ability to build like that now we would do. Plenty of demand for road capacity. When was the last new stretch of motorway? A1 upgrade in North Yorkshire if you count that, otherwise M6 Toll I think.

[Dog Star]

Earthdweller said:

Not sure if you’ve seen this video, but I’m sure you recognise most of the locations and how brutal the M62 can be in winter and just how challenging.. fabulous time warp video

https://youtu.be/qvw9DNQWymo?si=7r9ouRlvK-NoU61L

I’ve seen that - it’s brilliant.