Hajj Pilgrimage - 1,300 Die in Heat
Discussion
1,300 pilgrims have died in the heat of Saudi Arabia, including a couple from the USA.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw000kp55d2o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw000kp55d2o
This seems to be a thing that's fairness normal (hundreds die each year) but which has been particularly bad this year and it's caught the attention of our press.
Apparently a lot of the deaths arise because a fair proportion of pilgrims are fairly old, as the Hajj is supposed to be the last box on your "good Muslim" punch-card, and the facilities are always over-capacity due to pilgrims who informally turn up in droves, many from developing nations, arriving with few means to cope with the hardships.
Apparently a lot of the deaths arise because a fair proportion of pilgrims are fairly old, as the Hajj is supposed to be the last box on your "good Muslim" punch-card, and the facilities are always over-capacity due to pilgrims who informally turn up in droves, many from developing nations, arriving with few means to cope with the hardships.
Blackpuddin said:
With all the money the Saudis have you'd think they might provide appropriate amounts of water and shelter.
I think there is an air-conditioned walkway to get to it, etc. but to limit numbers there are only a certain amount of "pilgrimage visas" allowed and they cost a few thousand each. Pilgrims from poorer areas can't afford it and go without a visa, it's these people who are suffering.Alickadoo said:
You might also think why do people do it? Why bother?
If God wanted to save them he would - isn't that what they believe?
Religion, numerous Gods, easily led followers etc - and a lack of realisation that it's all twaddle. No wonder big chunks of the world have created totally unnecessary problems for themselves.If God wanted to save them he would - isn't that what they believe?
MesoForm said:
Blackpuddin said:
With all the money the Saudis have you'd think they might provide appropriate amounts of water and shelter.
I think there is an air-conditioned walkway to get to it, etc. but to limit numbers there are only a certain amount of "pilgrimage visas" allowed and they cost a few thousand each. Pilgrims from poorer areas can't afford it and go without a visa, it's these people who are suffering.The rich get air conditioned walkways and the poor get to die for their God.
Glassman said:
biggbn said:
Alickadoo said:
You might also think why do people do it? Why bother?
If God wanted to save them he would - isn't that what they believe?
Why do people do anything? What a strange question. If God wanted to save them he would - isn't that what they believe?
The facilities are expansive, in true Saudi style loads of local heritage has been bulldozed for roads, hotels, covered walkways with sprayers... But ultimately you've got 2m people pitching up, many ad hoc, in a red-hot, nowhere of a place - deaths will follow.
(Interesting fact: pre-Muslim Arabs made shrines of naturally occurring cubes - cubes being oddities in nature and "evidence" of the otherworldly - making the Kaba sort of an Arab Easter bunny.)
(Interesting fact: pre-Muslim Arabs made shrines of naturally occurring cubes - cubes being oddities in nature and "evidence" of the otherworldly - making the Kaba sort of an Arab Easter bunny.)
Timothy Bucktu said:
It's certainly not just Religion...the majority, including almost everyone reading this will just follow the herd and do what they're told to do, no questions asked.
Very true. Almost everyone who has religious beliefs has more or less the same ones as their parents. They haven't assessed the evidence and made a logical choice. It's as accurate as throwing a dice.MesoForm said:
Blackpuddin said:
With all the money the Saudis have you'd think they might provide appropriate amounts of water and shelter.
I think there is an air-conditioned walkway to get to it, etc. but to limit numbers there are only a certain amount of "pilgrimage visas" allowed and they cost a few thousand each. Pilgrims from poorer areas can't afford it and go without a visa, it's these people who are suffering.the article said:
According to the official Saudi news agency SPA, most of the Mecca pilgrims did not have official permits. The process of obtaining official Hajj permits can be costly or complicated, however.
The Hajj is the annual pilgrimage by Muslim people to the holy city of Mecca. Those who are financially and physically able to complete the journey are expected to do so at least once in their lifetime.
The Hajj is the annual pilgrimage by Muslim people to the holy city of Mecca. Those who are financially and physically able to complete the journey are expected to do so at least once in their lifetime.
Was reading about this in the Indonesian Press.
Saudi issue a certain amount of Hajj Permits per year so that its a safe and manageable "event". This includes the availability of accommodation, sanitary facilities, food and drink, medical etc.
The issue is that many people are impatient / terminally ill and seeking "redemption" / fall foul of illegal Hajj tours.
Most of these people have flown into Egypt and trecked / been bussed in to Mecca across the border.
The high deaths are not from the crowds / crush at mecca itself but from people trying to get there informally.
Saudi issue a certain amount of Hajj Permits per year so that its a safe and manageable "event". This includes the availability of accommodation, sanitary facilities, food and drink, medical etc.
The issue is that many people are impatient / terminally ill and seeking "redemption" / fall foul of illegal Hajj tours.
Most of these people have flown into Egypt and trecked / been bussed in to Mecca across the border.
The high deaths are not from the crowds / crush at mecca itself but from people trying to get there informally.
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