Solution to illegal channel crossings
Discussion
This got a quick mention on talk radio last night. The presenter skipped over it, but I think it might have legs.
The person on the boat that is operating the outboard motor is de facto the captain and he must be breaking several seafaring laws, i.e. unauthorized passage and landing, overloaded, in charge of an unseaworthy vessel, manslaughter if someone is killed, etc. etc. etc.
Increase the penalties for this. Any film I’ve seen of a migrant boat it’s completely obvious who is holding the tiller on the outboard. treat it as a serious criminal offense, including jail time and deportation. With no one to steer theboat none of them can leave the beach in France problem solved?
The person on the boat that is operating the outboard motor is de facto the captain and he must be breaking several seafaring laws, i.e. unauthorized passage and landing, overloaded, in charge of an unseaworthy vessel, manslaughter if someone is killed, etc. etc. etc.
Increase the penalties for this. Any film I’ve seen of a migrant boat it’s completely obvious who is holding the tiller on the outboard. treat it as a serious criminal offense, including jail time and deportation. With no one to steer theboat none of them can leave the beach in France problem solved?
What is the current penalties for the potential captain?
Given they might have risked more escaping from where they have come, and also risked potential death crossing the channel in a tiny boat i suspect increased jail time is less of a concern.
Given they might have risked more escaping from where they have come, and also risked potential death crossing the channel in a tiny boat i suspect increased jail time is less of a concern.
Edited by Challo on Friday 17th January 08:20
Stop interfering with and displacing people in other countries. Cooperate properly with the EU and pay our fair share to recompense them for their efforts. Properly resource our borders and immigration services so they process applications at a much faster place. De-politicise immigration decisions. Restrict access to benefits and social housing until a permanent decision is made. Provide accomodation and allowances to immigrants awaiting a decision only in return for them doing whatever work is assigned. Distribute them across the country to places where there are shortages in the workforce.
Challo said:
Given they might have risked more escaping from where they have come, and also risked potential death crossing the channel in a tiny boat i suspect increased jail time is less of a concern.
I agree it won't work, but I'd like to think that France is better than prison or death. I go on holiday there.whos the captain....
french dont really care once its in the water. when the UK pootle on over to pick them up there is no one on the tiller. pretty hard to pin point!
The solution is to stop granting asylum to countries where its rather nice to go on holiday (albania, vietnam) and introduce stricter rules around citizenship and indef leave to remain.
you can come, but you will get a 5 year work visa with no rights to social care, no ability to bring dependents and no right to citizenship. - same as alot of countries.
french dont really care once its in the water. when the UK pootle on over to pick them up there is no one on the tiller. pretty hard to pin point!
The solution is to stop granting asylum to countries where its rather nice to go on holiday (albania, vietnam) and introduce stricter rules around citizenship and indef leave to remain.
you can come, but you will get a 5 year work visa with no rights to social care, no ability to bring dependents and no right to citizenship. - same as alot of countries.
Challo said:
What is the current penalties for the potential captain?
Given they might have risked more escaping from where they have come, and also risked potential death crossing the channel in a tiny boat i suspect increased jail time is less of a concern.
You missed the word deportation Given they might have risked more escaping from where they have come, and also risked potential death crossing the channel in a tiny boat i suspect increased jail time is less of a concern.
Edited by Challo on Friday 17th January 08:20
Forester1965 said:
Stop interfering with and displacing people in other countries. Cooperate properly with the EU and pay our fair share to recompense them for their efforts. Properly resource our borders and immigration services so they process applications at a much faster place. De-politicise immigration decisions. Restrict access to benefits and social housing until a permanent decision is made. Provide accomodation and allowances to immigrants awaiting a decision only in return for them doing whatever work is assigned. Distribute them across the country to places where there are shortages in the workforce.
If you allow them to work you encourage more of them z4RRSchris said:
whos the captain....
french dont really care once its in the water. when the UK pootle on over to pick them up there is no one on the tiller. pretty hard to pin point!
The solution is to stop granting asylum to countries where its rather nice to go on holiday (albania, vietnam) and introduce stricter rules around citizenship and indef leave to remain.
you can come, but you will get a 5 year work visa with no rights to social care, no ability to bring dependents and no right to citizenship. - same as alot of countries.
You are confusing asylum with a work visa french dont really care once its in the water. when the UK pootle on over to pick them up there is no one on the tiller. pretty hard to pin point!
The solution is to stop granting asylum to countries where its rather nice to go on holiday (albania, vietnam) and introduce stricter rules around citizenship and indef leave to remain.
you can come, but you will get a 5 year work visa with no rights to social care, no ability to bring dependents and no right to citizenship. - same as alot of countries.
milesgiles said:
This got a quick mention on talk radio last night. The presenter skipped over it, but I think it might have legs.
The person on the boat that is operating the outboard motor is de facto the captain and he must be breaking several seafaring laws, i.e. unauthorized passage and landing, overloaded, in charge of an unseaworthy vessel, manslaughter if someone is killed, etc. etc. etc.
Increase the penalties for this. Any film I’ve seen of a migrant boat it’s completely obvious who is holding the tiller on the outboard. treat it as a serious criminal offense, including jail time and deportation. With no one to steer theboat none of them can leave the beach in France problem solved?
Small problems.The person on the boat that is operating the outboard motor is de facto the captain and he must be breaking several seafaring laws, i.e. unauthorized passage and landing, overloaded, in charge of an unseaworthy vessel, manslaughter if someone is killed, etc. etc. etc.
Increase the penalties for this. Any film I’ve seen of a migrant boat it’s completely obvious who is holding the tiller on the outboard. treat it as a serious criminal offense, including jail time and deportation. With no one to steer theboat none of them can leave the beach in France problem solved?
This is already being done, although some cases where thrown out since the law did not cover interception at sea, now changed.
In general the aim for the smugglers is to launch without being seen so how do you know who's steering?
Even if you do get pictures of the launch its a French beach so UK law does not apply.
Since the boats are very full, I am sure, the smugglers, who are the criminals, tell those on board not to touch the tiller. So who do you prosecute?
Even if some one is caught they just say they where not originally steering, but who ever was stopped. So they had to take over because we where all in danger.
The only solution is to pick them up in the channel or when they land here and return them to France. Everything else is window dressing.
You can argue about how this is done or if France will allow it but it does not alter the fact that it is the only solution. It is the same solution that has been successfully applied to air travel.
You can argue about how this is done or if France will allow it but it does not alter the fact that it is the only solution. It is the same solution that has been successfully applied to air travel.
Vanden Saab said:
The only solution is to pick them up in the channel or when they land here and return them to France. Everything else is window dressing.
You can argue about how this is done or if France will allow it but it does not alter the fact that it is the only solution. It is the same solution that has been successfully applied to air travel.
Since we know France will say no how exactly would this work?You can argue about how this is done or if France will allow it but it does not alter the fact that it is the only solution. It is the same solution that has been successfully applied to air travel.
The airline situation is rather different. Clue the person arriving with out the required visa will have had to provide documentation to the carrier and normally did have permission to be in the country they left.
I'm still wondering why anyone would risk drowning or even worse, seeing your kids drown, whilst attempting to leave France (a country a few on here have moved to, or own properties in, I know I would like to) to get to England.
I do fully understand risking death to leave a rogue state in order to get to the nearest European country.
My son is going to marry his Norwegian girlfriend but he will still have to jump through many hoops, and spend a lot of money and possibly years of time in order to be able to live with her.
Maybe I should buy him a rubber boat and a life vest.
I do fully understand risking death to leave a rogue state in order to get to the nearest European country.
My son is going to marry his Norwegian girlfriend but he will still have to jump through many hoops, and spend a lot of money and possibly years of time in order to be able to live with her.
Maybe I should buy him a rubber boat and a life vest.
croyde said:
I'm still wondering why anyone would risk drowning or even worse, seeing your kids drown, whilst attempting to leave France (a country a few on here have moved to, or own properties in, I know I would like to) to get to England.
I do wonder this myself, but I would imagine there is a narrative spun to them to get them out of mainland Europe into the UK, it certainly won't be bed of roses over there for them so they get grifted for more money to travel to the real land of milk and honey. The answer is of course to stop creating havoc in north Africa, the Stans and the Middle east, too late now (to quote Sir Humphry) our politicians and the chattering classes have a lot to answer for, but heh they don't get impacted by the influx as they are just dumped in already deprived areas send them to the Cotswolds I say.
Mrr T said:
Since we know France will say no how exactly would this work?
Surely they will have to take them if we point the boat in their direction with just enough fuel to get to France? We're just doing the smuggling in reverse.I don't think there is a single solution to fix this. We need to effect multiple strategies at the same time - Rwanda scheme (expensive deterrent), taking half off each boat and putting them on a boat heading to France, an offshore detention facility (Australia uses PNG for this purpose), onshore prisons (yes, we are short of prisons but a good reason to build more). The idea is the get the % down to the point where it is an effective deterrent in itself i.e. it isn't worth paying the £xxxx to get to the UK. Sadly this means another country will face the same problems e.g. Ireland but then it's someone else's problem.
If anyone from Reform (or perhaps wishfully, from the Conervatives) is on here, bookmark this topic!
Edited by fido on Friday 17th January 10:16
J4CKO said:
Does make you wonder how many people would arrive if we didnt have the English Channel in the way.
Is France taking in massively more than us ?
Or are we the preferred destination ?
We tend to have fewer asylum applications per 10,000 than most of the EU.Is France taking in massively more than us ?
Or are we the preferred destination ?
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...
"In 2022, there were around 13 asylum applications for every 10,000 people living in the UK. Across the EU27 there were 25 asylum applications for every 10,000 people. The UK was therefore below the average among EU countries for asylum applications per head of population, ranking 17th among EU27 countries plus the UK on this measure."
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