The madness of eco planning!
Discussion
We are screwed unless we stop this sort of Eco madness-
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2025/01/22/co...
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2025/01/22/co...
lrdisco said:
We are screwed unless we stop this sort of Eco madness-
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2025/01/22/co...
How hard can it be to rehome bats and if they're really that rare in the UK then clearly the habitat isn't right for them.https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2025/01/22/co...
Having said that maybe the road was going to damage land that was nice for a ton of other reasons in which case thank christ the bats were there to save the fields from being covered in concrete.
tfa said:
Cllr Graham Plant, Cabinet Member for Highways, Transport and Infrastructure said: “It was right for us to leave no stone unturned in relation to Natural England’s stance on our proposals.
Don't do that mate, there's crested newts nesting under those stones 
There must be more to this than the story is telling, where are the bats roosting that will be disturbed by a road.
I have a friend who spend several million pounds building a bat bridge so they could cross a new road he built.
According to the thermal cameras, no bats have ever crossed their bridge.
Natural England is a government funded pressure group led by someone (ex-Friends of the Earth) who sees his main aim in life as stopping development.
.:ian:. said:
There must be more to this than the story is telling
There is.Bats are part of a finely balanced ecosystem on which agriculture depends. You can't easily rehome them somewhere else as you can with other species. When you try, they either die or disperse elsewhere. This leaves fields prone to under pollination and an increase in pests which leads to poor yields or even crop failures. The pesticides and fertilisers that in past would have countered this are either no longer available or less effective as they cause health problems of their own... or too expensive.
So all this impacts livelihoods, businesses and economies the financial impact of which is often greater than the gains the development planned might offer.
We have thankfully dispensed with the bulldozing of biodiversity without a second thought approach to development. It's nothing to do with 'eco planning' and everything to do with common sense.
It is possible to move them but it takes time so all this means is developments are delayed a bit, not abandoned.
Yet weirdly loads of fields near me that are full of bats living in the hedgerows are being pushed through development under the Local Plan.
A Local Plan that lumped 1500 homes onto a single village - but deliberately keeps a divide between the old village and the new estates. No road will connect the two halves.
A Local Plan that lumped 1500 homes onto a single village - but deliberately keeps a divide between the old village and the new estates. No road will connect the two halves.
loafer123 said:
I have a friend who spend several million pounds building a bat bridge so they could cross a new road he built.
According to the thermal cameras, no bats have ever crossed their bridge.
Natural England is a government funded pressure group led by someone (ex-Friends of the Earth) who sees his main aim in life as stopping development.
That seems a bit arse about face; wouldn't it be more sensible to use IR cameras to see if the bats are likely to need a bat bridge, then decide whether to build one? A bit more money spent up front could save a large amount overall, at the very least the bridge could be placed where its most needed as the necessary data would be available.According to the thermal cameras, no bats have ever crossed their bridge.
Natural England is a government funded pressure group led by someone (ex-Friends of the Earth) who sees his main aim in life as stopping development.
Previous said:
Scrimpton said:
£56 million wasted. No wonder we can't build infrastructure in this country
This is the real issue. How much it costs in time and money before anything really happens. Especially compared to other countries.I am sure alternative approaches could be used to make sure we have enough bats.
StevieBee said:
There is.
Bats are part of a finely balanced ecosystem on which agriculture depends. You can't easily rehome them somewhere else as you can with other species. When you try, they either die or disperse elsewhere. This leaves fields prone to under pollination and an increase in pests which leads to poor yields or even crop failures. The pesticides and fertilisers that in past would have countered this are either no longer available or less effective as they cause health problems of their own... or too expensive.
So all this impacts livelihoods, businesses and economies the financial impact of which is often greater than the gains the development planned might offer.
We have thankfully dispensed with the bulldozing of biodiversity without a second thought approach to development. It's nothing to do with 'eco planning' and everything to do with common sense.
It is possible to move them but it takes time so all this means is developments are delayed a bit, not abandoned.
I genuinely didn't know that / hadn't extrapolated the actual impact. First time I've ever been enlightened by a post in NP&E (and probably the last)!Bats are part of a finely balanced ecosystem on which agriculture depends. You can't easily rehome them somewhere else as you can with other species. When you try, they either die or disperse elsewhere. This leaves fields prone to under pollination and an increase in pests which leads to poor yields or even crop failures. The pesticides and fertilisers that in past would have countered this are either no longer available or less effective as they cause health problems of their own... or too expensive.
So all this impacts livelihoods, businesses and economies the financial impact of which is often greater than the gains the development planned might offer.
We have thankfully dispensed with the bulldozing of biodiversity without a second thought approach to development. It's nothing to do with 'eco planning' and everything to do with common sense.
It is possible to move them but it takes time so all this means is developments are delayed a bit, not abandoned.
Part of the problem is that individuals can delay projects by months or even years by repeatadly appealing planning decisions.
I'm not in favour of 'concreting over' the countryside (I've seen a lot of farmland and 'wild' land built on over recent years) but provided the planning process has been adhered to, the number of appeals or legal challenges that can me made should be limited IMHO.
This is another Norfolk road improvement scheme that was delayed by multiple appleals by one person:
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24353846.dr-andrew-bo...
Officials at National Highways - the government company responsible for the road - had been forced to pause work on the projects, along with a revamp of Thickthorn roundabout on the edge of Norwich, because of the long-running court battle.
They said Dr Boswell's challenge had delayed the projects by 20 months and added tens of millions of pounds to the their costs, due to soaring inflation.
With regards to the Western Link road, Natural England changed their 'rules' regarding the status of Barbastelle bats after planning for the road had be approved, hence the appeal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-6866...
I'm not in favour of 'concreting over' the countryside (I've seen a lot of farmland and 'wild' land built on over recent years) but provided the planning process has been adhered to, the number of appeals or legal challenges that can me made should be limited IMHO.
This is another Norfolk road improvement scheme that was delayed by multiple appleals by one person:
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24353846.dr-andrew-bo...
Officials at National Highways - the government company responsible for the road - had been forced to pause work on the projects, along with a revamp of Thickthorn roundabout on the edge of Norwich, because of the long-running court battle.
They said Dr Boswell's challenge had delayed the projects by 20 months and added tens of millions of pounds to the their costs, due to soaring inflation.
With regards to the Western Link road, Natural England changed their 'rules' regarding the status of Barbastelle bats after planning for the road had be approved, hence the appeal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-6866...
hidetheelephants said:
loafer123 said:
I have a friend who spend several million pounds building a bat bridge so they could cross a new road he built.
According to the thermal cameras, no bats have ever crossed their bridge.
Natural England is a government funded pressure group led by someone (ex-Friends of the Earth) who sees his main aim in life as stopping development.
That seems a bit arse about face; wouldn't it be more sensible to use IR cameras to see if the bats are likely to need a bat bridge, then decide whether to build one? A bit more money spent up front could save a large amount overall, at the very least the bridge could be placed where its most needed as the necessary data would be available.According to the thermal cameras, no bats have ever crossed their bridge.
Natural England is a government funded pressure group led by someone (ex-Friends of the Earth) who sees his main aim in life as stopping development.
Logic and sense has no place in planning.
It’s a lot more Lewis Carroll than that.
StevieBee said:
There is.
Bats are part of a finely balanced ecosystem on which agriculture depends. You can't easily rehome them somewhere else as you can with other species. When you try, they either die or disperse elsewhere. This leaves fields prone to under pollination and an increase in pests which leads to poor yields or even crop failures. The pesticides and fertilisers that in past would have countered this are either no longer available or less effective as they cause health problems of their own... or too expensive.
So all this impacts livelihoods, businesses and economies the financial impact of which is often greater than the gains the development planned might offer.
We have thankfully dispensed with the bulldozing of biodiversity without a second thought approach to development. It's nothing to do with 'eco planning' and everything to do with common sense.
It is possible to move them but it takes time so all this means is developments are delayed a bit, not abandoned.
Agreed but only if there really was a meaningful threat to the bats/biodiversity. A lot of the time, that has been simply used as an excuse by eco loons who are going to be against any kind of development and have weaponised the various rules regarding these bats (or similar) or stuff like great crested newts. Thankfully, things haven't got quite as bitter as in the US re stuff like the spotted owl (yet) but the 'common sense' you mention above just isn't really used most of the time.....Bats are part of a finely balanced ecosystem on which agriculture depends. You can't easily rehome them somewhere else as you can with other species. When you try, they either die or disperse elsewhere. This leaves fields prone to under pollination and an increase in pests which leads to poor yields or even crop failures. The pesticides and fertilisers that in past would have countered this are either no longer available or less effective as they cause health problems of their own... or too expensive.
So all this impacts livelihoods, businesses and economies the financial impact of which is often greater than the gains the development planned might offer.
We have thankfully dispensed with the bulldozing of biodiversity without a second thought approach to development. It's nothing to do with 'eco planning' and everything to do with common sense.
It is possible to move them but it takes time so all this means is developments are delayed a bit, not abandoned.
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