NHS Insurance Based system
Discussion
I didn't see a thread discussed the merits of an insurance based healthcare system that Reform are proposing.
Google AI said:
Recent policy statements and comments from the Reform UK party and its leader, Nigel Farage, suggest their healthcare plans are not focused on privatising the NHS, but on reforming it while maintaining the principle of a health service free at the point of delivery.
Here are the key points regarding their approach to healthcare:
• Focus on NHS Reform, Not Privatisation: Reform UK's main policy document, "Our Contract with You," outlines plans to address problems within the NHS, according to The BMJ.
• Maintaining Free at the Point of Delivery: The party has explicitly stated its commitment to keeping the NHS free at the point of use. A Reform spokesperson also affirmed their commitment to free prescriptions.
• Reducing Waiting Lists: A core element of Reform's plan is to significantly reduce NHS waiting lists, aiming for zero in two years.
• Potential for Insurance-Based System (with caveats): While stating a commitment to the free-at-the-point-of-delivery principle, Nigel Farage has mentioned looking into a French-style social insurance healthcare system, though the BBC reports that Reform is unlikely to introduce this model for the Welsh NHS due to time and legal constraints.
• Expanding Private Sector Involvement (Under Specific Conditions): Reform proposes a voucher scheme to give patients access to fully funded private treatment if they cannot see a GP within three days, a consultant within three weeks, or have an operation within nine weeks. The party also aims to cut waste, bureaucracy, and inefficiency within the NHS, including reviewing private contracts.
Important Note: It's important to differentiate between previous statements made by individual members or the party leadership at different times, and the official policy outlined in "Our Contract with You". While some sources have highlighted past discussions about a potential shift to an insurance-based system, the current stance is focused on preserving the core principles of the NHS while implementing reforms to improve efficiency and reduce waiting times.
Here are the key points regarding their approach to healthcare:
• Focus on NHS Reform, Not Privatisation: Reform UK's main policy document, "Our Contract with You," outlines plans to address problems within the NHS, according to The BMJ.
• Maintaining Free at the Point of Delivery: The party has explicitly stated its commitment to keeping the NHS free at the point of use. A Reform spokesperson also affirmed their commitment to free prescriptions.
• Reducing Waiting Lists: A core element of Reform's plan is to significantly reduce NHS waiting lists, aiming for zero in two years.
• Potential for Insurance-Based System (with caveats): While stating a commitment to the free-at-the-point-of-delivery principle, Nigel Farage has mentioned looking into a French-style social insurance healthcare system, though the BBC reports that Reform is unlikely to introduce this model for the Welsh NHS due to time and legal constraints.
• Expanding Private Sector Involvement (Under Specific Conditions): Reform proposes a voucher scheme to give patients access to fully funded private treatment if they cannot see a GP within three days, a consultant within three weeks, or have an operation within nine weeks. The party also aims to cut waste, bureaucracy, and inefficiency within the NHS, including reviewing private contracts.
Important Note: It's important to differentiate between previous statements made by individual members or the party leadership at different times, and the official policy outlined in "Our Contract with You". While some sources have highlighted past discussions about a potential shift to an insurance-based system, the current stance is focused on preserving the core principles of the NHS while implementing reforms to improve efficiency and reduce waiting times.
To me this seems quite sensible. Employers will be encouraged to offer private health insurance and take some pressure off the NHS, and employees will get tax benefits for taking out the insurance. This should leave capacity for children and old people, and those that aren't working or are on benefits.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Llanymynech/@52....
If you live on the left you will be required to have health insurance, if you live on the right it will all be free.
Not sure how that works.
If you live on the left you will be required to have health insurance, if you live on the right it will all be free.
Not sure how that works.
worsy said:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Llanymynech/@52....
If you live on the left you will be required to have health insurance, if you live on the right it will all be free.
Not sure how that works.
It’s about time they got rid of that. If you live in the UK something like health should be decided UK wide not devolved. The national and postcode lotteries around health need to go If you live on the left you will be required to have health insurance, if you live on the right it will all be free.
Not sure how that works.
s1962a said:
I didn't see a thread discussed the merits of an insurance based healthcare system that Reform are proposing.
Google AI said:
Recent policy statements and comments from the Reform UK party and its leader, Nigel Farage, suggest their healthcare plans are not focused on privatising the NHS, but on reforming it while maintaining the principle of a health service free at the point of delivery.
Here are the key points regarding their approach to healthcare:
Focus on NHS Reform, Not Privatisation: Reform UK's main policy document, "Our Contract with You," outlines plans to address problems within the NHS, according to The BMJ.
Maintaining Free at the Point of Delivery: The party has explicitly stated its commitment to keeping the NHS free at the point of use. A Reform spokesperson also affirmed their commitment to free prescriptions.
Reducing Waiting Lists: A core element of Reform's plan is to significantly reduce NHS waiting lists, aiming for zero in two years.
Potential for Insurance-Based System (with caveats): While stating a commitment to the free-at-the-point-of-delivery principle, Nigel Farage has mentioned looking into a French-style social insurance healthcare system, though the BBC reports that Reform is unlikely to introduce this model for the Welsh NHS due to time and legal constraints.
Expanding Private Sector Involvement (Under Specific Conditions): Reform proposes a voucher scheme to give patients access to fully funded private treatment if they cannot see a GP within three days, a consultant within three weeks, or have an operation within nine weeks. The party also aims to cut waste, bureaucracy, and inefficiency within the NHS, including reviewing private contracts.
Important Note: It's important to differentiate between previous statements made by individual members or the party leadership at different times, and the official policy outlined in "Our Contract with You". While some sources have highlighted past discussions about a potential shift to an insurance-based system, the current stance is focused on preserving the core principles of the NHS while implementing reforms to improve efficiency and reduce waiting times.
Here are the key points regarding their approach to healthcare:
Focus on NHS Reform, Not Privatisation: Reform UK's main policy document, "Our Contract with You," outlines plans to address problems within the NHS, according to The BMJ.
Maintaining Free at the Point of Delivery: The party has explicitly stated its commitment to keeping the NHS free at the point of use. A Reform spokesperson also affirmed their commitment to free prescriptions.
Reducing Waiting Lists: A core element of Reform's plan is to significantly reduce NHS waiting lists, aiming for zero in two years.
Potential for Insurance-Based System (with caveats): While stating a commitment to the free-at-the-point-of-delivery principle, Nigel Farage has mentioned looking into a French-style social insurance healthcare system, though the BBC reports that Reform is unlikely to introduce this model for the Welsh NHS due to time and legal constraints.
Expanding Private Sector Involvement (Under Specific Conditions): Reform proposes a voucher scheme to give patients access to fully funded private treatment if they cannot see a GP within three days, a consultant within three weeks, or have an operation within nine weeks. The party also aims to cut waste, bureaucracy, and inefficiency within the NHS, including reviewing private contracts.
Important Note: It's important to differentiate between previous statements made by individual members or the party leadership at different times, and the official policy outlined in "Our Contract with You". While some sources have highlighted past discussions about a potential shift to an insurance-based system, the current stance is focused on preserving the core principles of the NHS while implementing reforms to improve efficiency and reduce waiting times.
s1962a said:
To me this seems quite sensible. Employers will be encouraged to offer private health insurance and take some pressure off the NHS, and employees will get tax benefits for taking out the insurance. This should leave capacity for children and old people, and those that aren't working or are on benefits.
Have just read it and am just getting up from falling off my chair laughing. s1962a said:
To me this seems quite sensible. Employers will be encouraged to offer private health insurance and take some pressure off the NHS, and employees will get tax benefits for taking out the insurance. This should leave capacity for children and old people, and those that aren't working or are on benefits.
Will it be mandatory for employers to offer private health insurance to their employees?If not, what happens to those employed by businesses that don't offer health insurance?
Will the employers who do offer private healthcare get a reduction in the NI they pay for those employees?
Will new private hospitals be built, or will the existing NHS hospitals be used? Will we suddenly see lots of extra doctors and nurses appear to provide the care, or will we see a drain of talent from the NHS?
And who will offer this private health insurance? Will they get to decide what is or is not covered? Are they going to get to decide which healthcare facilities are "in network" or "out of network"? Will they get to decide what the premium is that employees are charged? Will they get to decide which medications are covered and which are not?
Will they get to collude with pharmaceutical companies to artificially jack up the prices of medical care so they can justify higher and higher premiums?
Rivenink said:
s1962a said:
To me this seems quite sensible. Employers will be encouraged to offer private health insurance and take some pressure off the NHS, and employees will get tax benefits for taking out the insurance. This should leave capacity for children and old people, and those that aren't working or are on benefits.
Will it be mandatory for employers to offer private health insurance to their employees?If not, what happens to those employed by businesses that don't offer health insurance?
Will the employers who do offer private healthcare get a reduction in the NI they pay for those employees?
Will new private hospitals be built, or will the existing NHS hospitals be used? Will we suddenly see lots of extra doctors and nurses appear to provide the care, or will we see a drain of talent from the NHS?
And who will offer this private health insurance? Will they get to decide what is or is not covered? Are they going to get to decide which healthcare facilities are "in network" or "out of network"? Will they get to decide what the premium is that employees are charged? Will they get to decide which medications are covered and which are not?
Will they get to collude with pharmaceutical companies to artificially jack up the prices of medical care so they can justify higher and higher premiums?
s1962a said:
To me this seems quite sensible. Employers will be encouraged to offer private health insurance and take some pressure off the NHS, and employees will get tax benefits for taking out the insurance. This should leave capacity for children and old people, and those that aren't working or are on benefits.
Why not have a system where employers pay the government a sum depending on the number of employees, and have an additional tax, similar to income tax, that they will use to fund the NHS? That way there's less chance of falling into the bottomless pit of subsidies that the privatisation of water, for instance, although other failed privatisation systems are available, has given us. Massive bonuses paid to medical insurance suppliers would not sit well with me.What do the medical insurance lobbyists say?
the issue with trains, water, royal mail etc is consumers have zero choice, so they are treated like an endless pit of cash to exploit for dividends.
in private health, you can choose, pick which hospital you like, if they are s
t they will go bust. it drives competition
ive always thought if you are employed you should have to be given private health, and you should get a tax break for it. i think mine costs c£2000pa and they must make a profit on that. NHS per person is more than that.
in private health, you can choose, pick which hospital you like, if they are s
t they will go bust. it drives competition ive always thought if you are employed you should have to be given private health, and you should get a tax break for it. i think mine costs c£2000pa and they must make a profit on that. NHS per person is more than that.
Rivenink said:
s1962a said:
To me this seems quite sensible. Employers will be encouraged to offer private health insurance and take some pressure off the NHS, and employees will get tax benefits for taking out the insurance. This should leave capacity for children and old people, and those that aren't working or are on benefits.
Will it be mandatory for employers to offer private health insurance to their employees?If not, what happens to those employed by businesses that don't offer health insurance?
Will the employers who do offer private healthcare get a reduction in the NI they pay for those employees?
Will new private hospitals be built, or will the existing NHS hospitals be used? Will we suddenly see lots of extra doctors and nurses appear to provide the care, or will we see a drain of talent from the NHS?
And who will offer this private health insurance? Will they get to decide what is or is not covered? Are they going to get to decide which healthcare facilities are "in network" or "out of network"? Will they get to decide what the premium is that employees are charged? Will they get to decide which medications are covered and which are not?
Will they get to collude with pharmaceutical companies to artificially jack up the prices of medical care so they can justify higher and higher premiums?
But the overarching theme is that the NHS in it's current form is not fit for purpose and is inefficient and bursting at the seams. An insurance based system to supplement the NHS seems practical and workable in the short term.
In some ways having employers pay for staff health care could be a good option. The cost should be tax deductable as well.
It will mean that employees will get quicker treatment too. I claimed on private insurance when I had cataracts. Operated on within weeks instead of minimum three months on the NHS.
It will mean that employees will get quicker treatment too. I claimed on private insurance when I had cataracts. Operated on within weeks instead of minimum three months on the NHS.
s1962a said:
Rivenink said:
s1962a said:
To me this seems quite sensible. Employers will be encouraged to offer private health insurance and take some pressure off the NHS, and employees will get tax benefits for taking out the insurance. This should leave capacity for children and old people, and those that aren't working or are on benefits.
Will it be mandatory for employers to offer private health insurance to their employees?If not, what happens to those employed by businesses that don't offer health insurance?
Will the employers who do offer private healthcare get a reduction in the NI they pay for those employees?
Will new private hospitals be built, or will the existing NHS hospitals be used? Will we suddenly see lots of extra doctors and nurses appear to provide the care, or will we see a drain of talent from the NHS?
And who will offer this private health insurance? Will they get to decide what is or is not covered? Are they going to get to decide which healthcare facilities are "in network" or "out of network"? Will they get to decide what the premium is that employees are charged? Will they get to decide which medications are covered and which are not?
Will they get to collude with pharmaceutical companies to artificially jack up the prices of medical care so they can justify higher and higher premiums?
But the overarching theme is that the NHS in it's current form is not fit for purpose and is inefficient and bursting at the seams. An insurance based system to supplement the NHS seems practical and workable in the short term.
For me, I think it sensible to
Introduce a relatively modest GP charge.
The cost of prescriptions could go up a few pounds, bearing in mind there is still the PPC (https://www.gov.uk/get-a-ppc) and thus protecting long term sick issues.
It should be possible for the NHS to provide elective treatment at cost to patient (plus profit margin) and therefore competing with private hospitals.
z4RRSchris said:
the issue with trains, water, royal mail etc is consumers have zero choice, so they are treated like an endless pit of cash to exploit for dividends.
in private health, you can choose, pick which hospital you like, if they are st they will go bust. it drives competition
In any 'free market' system, there will be a level. The idea that they will hit rock bottom pricing is nonsense. It will end up like it normally does, with just a few companies controlling the market, and keeping prices at a level they are happy with. in private health, you can choose, pick which hospital you like, if they are s
t they will go bust. it drives competition I remember browser wars. We've got them now to an extent. Search engines? Anyone can try. Operating systems? It's a free market. Yeah, right.
You suggest that trains, water, royal mail, and so many others are different. They are not. Private companies owe their allegiance to shareholders. They have no concern for users. We are told state-owned industries are always rubbish. So what's the difference, apart from £billions not being paid to suits?
Slow.Patrol said:
In some ways having employers pay for staff health care could be a good option. The cost should be tax deductable as well.
It will mean that employees will get quicker treatment too. I claimed on private insurance when I had cataracts. Operated on within weeks instead of minimum three months on the NHS.
It also means employers get even more leverage over their employees as their very health is now dependent on their employer. It will mean that employees will get quicker treatment too. I claimed on private insurance when I had cataracts. Operated on within weeks instead of minimum three months on the NHS.
Sounds like a fantastic system. I mean it's worked so well for the US.
Derek Smith said:
Why not have a system where employers pay the government a sum depending on the number of employees, and have an additional tax, similar to income tax, that they will use to fund the NHS? That way there's less chance of falling into the bottomless pit of subsidies that the privatisation of water, for instance, although other failed privatisation systems are available, has given us. Massive bonuses paid to medical insurance suppliers would not sit well with me.
What do the medical insurance lobbyists say?
Then all it would need is a catchy name. I know, let's call it National Insurance!What do the medical insurance lobbyists say?
(Which is your point of course)
Derek Smith said:
In any 'free market' system, there will be a level. The idea that they will hit rock bottom pricing is nonsense. It will end up like it normally does, with just a few companies controlling the market, and keeping prices at a level they are happy with.
I remember browser wars. We've got them now to an extent. Search engines? Anyone can try. Operating systems? It's a free market. Yeah, right.
You suggest that trains, water, royal mail, and so many others are different. They are not. Private companies owe their allegiance to shareholders. They have no concern for users. We are told state-owned industries are always rubbish. So what's the difference, apart from £billions not being paid to suits?
Insurance is essentially socialism with a profit motive. I remember browser wars. We've got them now to an extent. Search engines? Anyone can try. Operating systems? It's a free market. Yeah, right.
You suggest that trains, water, royal mail, and so many others are different. They are not. Private companies owe their allegiance to shareholders. They have no concern for users. We are told state-owned industries are always rubbish. So what's the difference, apart from £billions not being paid to suits?
The idea of insurance is that you spread the cost of payouts around as many small payers as possible, so no one is out of pocket a huge amount for a large expense, not a bad notion, no. However, of course as private businesses have to have increase share prices and pay shareholders, of course to do this you need to ensure that you're paying out as little as you can get away with whilst charging as much as you can get away with.
Insurance ended up as one of the most highly regulated industries in the world because they've earned it, not because evil regulators are out to get them.
The free market works for some things but lets not pretend it's a magic bullet... We've seen plenty of times where it has completely failed.
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