State pension likely to rise by 4.7% in April

[s1962a]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62lnzdndkeo

This seems a bit tone deaf to me given our current economic environment. Why are Labour so insistent on keeping the triple lock?

[gruffalo]

s1962a said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62lnzdndkeo

This seems a bit tone deaf to me given our current economic environment. Why are Labour so insistent on keeping the triple lock?

No all pensioners have large private pensions but most have worked and contributed over 40 or more years.

Labour have seen the reaction they get when they try and cut back on the old and personally I thing those on long term out of work benefits would be a much better place to start, no doubt they will be also getting a pay rise as well.

[Gecko1978]

s1962a said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62lnzdndkeo

This seems a bit tone deaf to me given our current economic environment. Why are Labour so insistent on keeping the triple lock?

Because they can't cut anything and can only raise taxes

[Earthdweller]

Yep it's a shocker giving many of the poorest in society an extra £8 a week

Shameful

[philv]

All the triple lock is doing is keeping the pension at the same value year to year to protect pensioners who rely on it.

It's 4 7% of relatively bugger all if you have to survive on the state pension.

Those moaning about it should try living on 12k a year.
Not sure i'd want to.

The stty uk state pension is not the cause of all our economic woes.

[s1962a]

Earthdweller said:

Yep it's a shocker giving many of the poorest in society an extra £8 a week

Shameful

They are only getting this increase because of the triple lock, and that was probably done to win votes. Pension is currently £203 a week, and if pensioners are poor they get help with housing benefits on top of that. I'm not disputing paying pensions - it's the triple lock increase I was querying.

I guess it'll be the "broadest shoulders" paying for this or we borrow more.

[s1962a]

philv said:

All the triple lock is doing is keeping the pension at the same value year to year to protect pensioners who rely on it.

It's 4 7% of relatively bugger all if you have to survive on the state pension.

Those moaning about it should try living on 12k a year.
Not sure i'd want to.

The stty uk state pension is not the cause of all our economic woes.

You sure about that?

Google AI said:

In the fiscal year 2024-25, the UK's welfare spending is forecast to be £303.3 billion, representing 23.8% of the government's total annual budget, according to The Independent. A significant portion of this expenditure, around £134.8 billion in 2023-24, goes towards state pensions for the elderly, with Universal Credit being the next largest spending area for working-age benefits.

Major categories of benefit spending
State Pension: The largest benefit cost, accounting for a substantial portion of the overall welfare budget, with forecasts for 2025-26 indicating around £145.6 billion spent on state pensions in Great Britain.

Working-age and Children's Benefits: In 2025-26, the forecast is for £141.2 billion to be spent on benefits for this group, including Universal Credit, to help with living costs.

Disability and Health Benefits: Spending on support for people with disabilities and health conditions has seen substantial growth, with an estimated £75.3 billion allocated for this in 2025-26, according to GOV.UK.

Housing Benefits: These benefits, intended to help with housing costs, are forecast to total £35.3 billion in 2025-26.

[GT03ROB]

With the personal allowance being frozen out to 2028, its going to be fairly soon that the state pension will given out with one hand & tax taken back with the other. But then maybe this is their way around the triple lock

[valiant]

Gecko1978 said:

Because they can't cut anything and can only raise taxes

Because pensioners vote in numbers and no matter what the government propose to do they’ll be slated for it.

Pay them the above and we can’t afford it and taxes will have to increase. Pay them less and we get the “Oh my God, pensioners will starve” type posts.

Just look at the winter fuel allowance thread for example.

[valiant]

philv said:

All the triple lock is doing is keeping the pension at the same value year to year to protect pensioners who rely on it.

It's 4 7% of relatively bugger all if you have to survive on the state pension.

Those moaning about it should try living on 12k a year.
Not sure i'd want to.

The stty uk state pension is not the cause of all our economic woes.

State pension is the biggest ‘benefit’ paid.

Those living on £12k should have thought about future provision and made arrangements instead of buying expensive lattes and white pcp Audis. That’s how it works here isn’t it?

[alangla]

Earthdweller said:

Yep it's a shocker giving many of the poorest in society an extra £8 a week

Shameful

I know that better off pensioners will be returning a chunk of this as tax, but why put it on the base pension and not on pension credit or any of the other benefits that are aimed at the actual poorest in society?

[milesgiles]

Workhouses are the only solutions

[Condi]

s1962a said:

Why are Labour so insistent on keeping the triple lock?

Didn't you see the uproar when they tried to take away the Winter Fuel Allowance??? It's become an untouchable political chalice, the Triple Lock. Also, very heavily supported by the PH millionaires, desperately needing that £300 to fund part of their ski holidays each year.

Since the introduction of the policy, and not including the latest rise announced today, pensioners have had a 40% larger increase in pensions than workers have had in pay. It's totally unsustainable to be giving non working people a bigger pay rise than those who's taxes are used to pay for it! This year will only increase that gap, because workers will not be getting a 4.7% pay increase.

As for pensioners being "the poorest in society", that's nowhere near true. They are, statistically, the richest generation, albeit with high inequality between the wealthiest and the poorest. The idea that "all pensioners are poor" and so a high universal pension for everyone is needed is simply not correct.

[otolith]

valiant said:

Those living on £12k should have thought about future provision and made arrangements instead of buying expensive lattes and white pcp Audis. That s how it works here isn t it?

I think it all went on avocado bathroom suites.

[Condi]

philv said:

All the triple lock is doing is keeping the pension at the same value year to year to protect pensioners who rely on it.

It does nothing of the sort. It guarantees pensioners a bigger pay rise than inflation and wages, and has, since it's inception, handed pensioners a 38% bigger "pay rise" than working people, and a 40% bigger pay rise than inflation. This year's increase will only increase the difference between the working people's pay rise and the pensioner's pay rise.

[fat80b]

There does need to be some plan to get us away from the triple-lock as it is unsustainable. Above average rises for pensioners is crippling.

But it would be a right old "pull the ladder up behind you" if the boomers get their gold-plated-pensions only for the rest of us to have to do without and that makes it a very difficult conversation to have as all of us plan to be pensioners and many "feel" like they have paid on the way in.

I think there needs to be some move towards linking the level of the state pension to that of average earnings - i.e. we decide at what %age (of median earnings) the pension should be, and it is then pegged to that level based on the annual PAYE data. We can then say it's "fair" and still meets the "social contract" aspect of we've all paid in.

[kestral]

s1962a said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62lnzdndkeo

This seems a bit tone deaf to me given our current economic environment. Why are Labour so insistent on keeping the triple lock?

Because pensioners vote.

[Crudeoink]

philv said:

All the triple lock is doing is keeping the pension at the same value year to year to protect pensioners who rely on it.

It's 4 7% of relatively bugger all if you have to survive on the state pension.

Those moaning about it should try living on 12k a year.
Not sure i'd want to.

The stty uk state pension is not the cause of all our economic woes.

If those pensioners failed to save anything over 40years during one of the most economic prosperous periods in history it really shouldn't fall on the tax payer to pick up the pieces. Saving just £5/week from 20- 67 at the stock market average return of 8% would yield a pot of £135k at retirement

[Solocle]

philv said:

All the triple lock is doing is keeping the pension at the same value year to year to protect pensioners who rely on it.

It's 4 7% of relatively bugger all if you have to survive on the state pension.

Those moaning about it should try living on 12k a year.
Not sure i'd want to.

The stty uk state pension is not the cause of all our economic woes.

The triple lock doesn't keep the pension at the same value.

It raises the pension by the highest of:

• Inflation
• Wage increases
• 2.5%

So, consider a situation where the economy stagnates completely for 10 years. Wage and inflation increases at 0%.

In those 10 years the pension increases by 28%.

If it was 100 years, the pension increases 1180%.

Note that those years don't have to be concurrent, it is a cumulative effect.

The triple lock will gradually increase the value of the pension ahead of either inflation or wage growth, by design.

And that means that, long term, it's unsustainable.

That doesn't mean it's anywhere near the breaking point yet, and comes from when pensions were really dire. But it's a misconception that it's just maintaing parity with the workforce.

[Slow.Patrol]

Amuses me that there are PHers complaining about the triple lock. I bet they will change their minds when they get to retire.

Having said that, I now get state pension and would be happy for it to be linked to inflation only.

A third of my state pension goes in council tax. OK, perhaps I should be a good little communist and downsize to a two bed flat, but I'm currently active enough to enjoy my garden and I worked bloody hard solidly for 45 years to live in a nice house in a nice area.