Trumpism in the UK

[Mojooo]

Once Reform get in and start trying to do all sorts of crazy st

Do you think the UK establishment (politicians/legal) and the public will go along with it the same as the USA or will there be more resistance?

I don't think Reform will be as extreme as Trump but I imagine some interesting stuff happening.

[BigMon]

Sounds liike a dreadful Sex Pistols cover.

[bigglesA110]

Mojooo said:

Once Reform get in and start trying to do all sorts of crazy st

Do you think the UK establishment (politicians/legal) and the public will go along with it the same as the USA or will there be more resistance?

I don't think Reform will be as extreme as Trump but I imagine some interesting stuff happening.

You would hope our institutions are less exposed to being corrupted and dismantled by a PM in our context. Thankfully we don't have an all powerful President in our model.

[smifffymoto]

I hope the UK wakes up and starts with a bit of critical thinking about Reform and any other snake oil politics.

[pheonix478]

Getragdogleg said:

I think right now the best thing we can do is to fk them all off and do without for a bit, the ship has been steered by epileptics recently and no input would be smoother and probably safer all round.

In 2010 and 2011, Belgium did not have a government, the fractured election results numerically rendering one effectively impossible. For 600 days they could not change taxes, spending or propose or pass new legislation... draw your own conclusions!

[entropy]

I think we'll get tactical voting in the Commons and the parties will unite to stifle whatever legislation Reform will want to initiate.

There's disillusionment with democracy in the UK as highlighted in the last election but not enough for a huge majority for Reform. Perhaps small majority at best for Reform but more likely they would have to form a coalition and Lib Dems will once again be kingmakers and I can't see Ed Davey playing buddies with Nigel Farage.

[Mr Whippy]

Mojooo said:

Once Reform get in and start trying to do all sorts of crazy st

Do you think the UK establishment (politicians/legal) and the public will go along with it the same as the USA or will there be more resistance?

I don't think Reform will be as extreme as Trump but I imagine some interesting stuff happening.

You mean crazy st like Starmer and friends? Or Boris and buddies?

It’s all the same, a choice of polished turds.

The point is you don’t invite the last two back. And you keep voting them out until they learn to respect their electorate, rather than simply expect to get voted back in every 4-8 years for another game of feather-my-nest by playing crony with their mates.

[John145]

You’d hope the institutions of the state would do all in their power to support the mandate of the democratically elected government. Not sure why you would like the nation’s institutions to hinder this just because you personally don’t like it.

[Mojooo]

Mr Whippy said:

Mojooo said:

Once Reform get in and start trying to do all sorts of crazy st

Do you think the UK establishment (politicians/legal) and the public will go along with it the same as the USA or will there be more resistance?

I don't think Reform will be as extreme as Trump but I imagine some interesting stuff happening.

You mean crazy st like Starmer and friends? Or Boris and buddies?

It s all the same, a choice of polished turds.

The point is you don t invite the last two back. And you keep voting them out until they learn to respect their electorate, rather than simply expect to get voted back in every 4-8 years for another game of feather-my-nest by playing crony with their mates.

Not sure Starmer has done anything crazy

The closest we have come to Trumpism in the UK was when the Govt lost the Supreme court cases over Brexit and the newspapers started calling Judges enemies of the people - and Tory MPs did their best not to disagree 9bearing in mind the govt could have changed the law or just acted reasonably).

Oh and trying to use prorogation as well.

[JagLover]

John145 said:

You d hope the institutions of the state would do all in their power to support the mandate of the democratically elected government. Not sure why you would like the nation s institutions to hinder this just because you personally don t like it.

The weaker the democratic mandate for Reform then the more likely the "blob" will sabotage everything they try to do.

You can also see some kind of logic because if Reform get in with 30-32% of the vote that means an overwhelming majority of the electorate wanted business as usual.

Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 17th September 05:16

[Murph7355]

JagLover said:

The weaker the democratic mandate for Reform then the more likely the "blob" will sabotage everything they try to do.

You can also see some kind of logic because if Reform get in with 30-32% of the vote that means an overwhelming majority of the electorate wanted business as usual.

Not quite.

It means that overwhelming majority didn't vote for Reform. They could have voted for myriad other people.

The ones who do note vote are accepting the decision made by the votes of everyone else. That's as far as you can go really.

Using the same logic, "the blob" should be at it now with Labour.

This is all part of the electoral reform that is so badly required in this country. And most Western democracies at present tbh, if they are to survive.

[rohrl]

pheonix478 said:

In 2010 and 2011, Belgium did not have a government, the fractured election results numerically rendering one effectively impossible. For 600 days they could not change taxes, spending or propose or pass new legislation... draw your own conclusions!

I draw the conclusion that there was a global financial crash in 2008/9 so pretty much everywhere would have shown climbing GDP in the following few years.

[JagLover]

Murph7355 said:

Not quite.

It means that overwhelming majority didn't vote for Reform. They could have voted for myriad other people.

The ones who do note vote are accepting the decision made by the votes of everyone else. That's as far as you can go really.

Using the same logic, "the blob" should be at it now with Labour.

This is all part of the electoral reform that is so badly required in this country. And most Western democracies at present tbh, if they are to survive.

Re Labour-not really as they were just offering more of the same with more taxes and public spending and that is a mixture that a number of other parties were offering as well.

Reform are offering a decisive break from the policies of the other parties. The two biggest areas being in control over immigration and net zero. They therefore need a strong mandate for change.

[Steve H]

bigglesA110 said:

You would hope our institutions are less exposed to being corrupted and dismantled by a PM in our context. Thankfully we don't have an all powerful President in our model.

They are not supposed to have one in theirs either .

[turbobloke]

The UK PM lacks Executive Orders as per Potus, Project Fear 2.0 needs to sharpen up.

[C5_Steve]

Mojooo said:

Once Reform get in and start trying to do all sorts of crazy st

Do you think the UK establishment (politicians/legal) and the public will go along with it the same as the USA or will there be more resistance?

I don't think Reform will be as extreme as Trump but I imagine some interesting stuff happening.

Just on the point in bold, much like the way the popularity of Reform is presented occasionally I really don't think the US has "gone along with it". The country is deeply divided over Trump and what he's doing. Depends what area you're talking about of course but alot of the country are desperate to be rid of him. I think the UKs decision to leave the EU would be a fair comparison in terms of support/resistance.

But to your overall point, I think similar to those in favour of Trump's approach certain groups would be emboldened to become louder and more obvious with their views and approaches. Can't see the party being able to stack government in the same way Trump has however so I imagine it won't be quite as easy.

[pheonix478]

rohrl said:

I draw the conclusion that there was a global financial crash in 2008/9 so pretty much everywhere would have shown climbing GDP in the following few years.

Ok well i credited anyone doing so with the intelligence not to just look at the absolute but to compare the country with no government to the average of their peers.

[Sport_Turismo_GTS]

pheonix478 said:

Ok well i credited anyone doing so with the intelligence not to just look at the absolute but to compare the country with no government to the average of their peers.

Surely ‘anyone with any intelligence’ would see that Belgium also outperformed their peers (and by a greater extent) when they did have a government, so your deduction doesn’t really stand up.

[Skodillac]

John145 said:

You d hope the institutions of the state would do all in their power to support the mandate of the democratically elected government. Not sure why you would like the nation s institutions to hinder this just because you personally don t like it.

That is not the function of these institutions (presumably you mean such things as the Courts, House of Lords). They are specifically grade separated from the "government" as you call it (by which you actually mean the Executive branch of government) in order to prevent overreach by the Executive Branch of our governance.

You are arguing for elected dictatorship - which this country's current constitution has evolved specifically to avoid. And so it bloody well should do. We need to get back to realizing that we elect a Parliament, which gives its consent to a political Executive, which is balanced by the existence of other institutions in order that the Executive does not govern with impunity.

This is true whichever colour of party has a majority in the Commons. However, I fear a Reform Party run Executive would ride roughshod over this essential element of the UK Constitution in very short order - i.e. instigate Trumpism.

It is a great shame that this country does not have an elected, independent Head of State to add to our hodge podge system of checks and balances, which would have the authority and mandate to step in when Executive over reach rears its ugly head - such as Boris Johnson's unlawful prorogation of Parliament.

[Mortarboard]

Mojooo said:

Once Reform get in and start trying to do all sorts of crazy st

Do you think the UK establishment (politicians/legal) and the public will go along with it the same as the USA or will there be more resistance?

I don't think Reform will be as extreme as Trump but I imagine some interesting stuff happening.

Depends on what is meant by "Trumpism", really.

Populist politics over ability to govern effectively? Happens quite regularly after one side or the other has been in "too long", and the economy cycles the wrong way.

Government policy driven almost completely by vested interests, especially private individuals?
Haven't seen this too often in the uk. Remember "cash for questions"? Not really on the same scale as "give musk access to the government finances"

Polarized, "fk you" politics"?
Getting more like that. Its all these immigrants, you see, and the lefties, etc.

M.