The law is an ass
Author
Discussion

Slow.Patrol

Original Poster:

2,451 posts

31 months

Or maybe the lawyers/judges are taking us for fools.

It is seriously concerning..

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-new...

Jailed for 30 months

"There was no clear evidence that he was physically involved. He did not attack the police.

"He could not be seen to throw any missiles. He did not damage any property.

"He knows that by shouting the comments that he made that he was part of that incident and played an active part in that incident."

ATG

22,377 posts

289 months

Why were you just quoting the lawyer who was defending him?

Mr Penguin

3,562 posts

56 months

Article said:
Poole, of St Bernard's Road, Knutton, claimed to have acted lawfully when he was interviewed by police. However he later pleaded guilty to violent disorder.
Are you saying that 30 months is too much or too little for violent disorder?

rodericb

8,143 posts

143 months

Wow you'd think you'd be running out of jail cells real fast with the rate at which those people disturbing the peace are being incarcerated.

TorqueVR

1,895 posts

216 months

Pleased guilty to violent disorder. FAFO.

AyBee

10,929 posts

219 months

"However he later pleaded guilty to violent disorder."

paulw123

4,214 posts

207 months

Shouldn't have pleaded guilty. Much like the lady who tweeted. They had nothing on him.
Daft sentence considering what others get.

Do wonder if people like him are getting poor legal advice and effectively bring coherced into admitting to convictions.

Countdown

45,172 posts

213 months

"Awww....somebody whose views I share has been locked up, it's SO unfair!!!".

Behave like a prick, get treated like a prick.

Drumroll

4,210 posts

137 months

Countdown said:
"Awww....somebody whose views I share has been locked up, it's SO unfair!!!".

Behave like a prick, get treated like a prick.
Exactly.

Bluevanman

8,706 posts

210 months

It used to be that you pleaded guilty and got a reduced sentence, it doesn't seem to be the case with a certain type of crime ie protesting against immigration.
There was no violence involved on his part,just abusive language,he was clearly badly advised by his solicitor.
Prisons are under such pressure that people who have committed far more serious crimes than this fella are being let out early.
It doesn't appear very fair or sensible use of our prisons

Mr Penguin

3,562 posts

56 months

Bluevanman said:
It used to be that you pleaded guilty and got a reduced sentence, it doesn't seem to be the case with a certain type of crime ie protesting against immigration.
There was no violence involved on his part,just abusive language,he was clearly badly advised by his solicitor.
Prisons are under such pressure that people who have committed far more serious crimes than this fella are being let out early.
It doesn't appear very fair or sensible use of our prisons
It should be a reduction of a third for a guilty plea. Which conviction are you using as a benchmark to say there is no reduction for pleading guilty?

Bluevanman

8,706 posts

210 months

Mr Penguin said:
It should be a reduction of a third for a guilty plea. Which conviction are you using as a benchmark to say there is no reduction for pleading guilty?
Are you suggesting he would have got a 45 month sentence if he hadn't pleaded guilty ?

Mr Penguin

3,562 posts

56 months

Bluevanman said:
Are you suggesting he would have got a 45 month sentence if he hadn't pleaded guilty ?
That would be within the range for either culpability A or harm category 1 in the sentencing guidelines, so quite possibly.
If he thinks its too harsh, he can appeal the sentence.

Edit: also some aggravating factors:
Religious hostility
Active and persistent participant
Incitement of others


Edited by Mr Penguin on Wednesday 17th September 10:56

Drumroll

4,210 posts

137 months

Bluevanman said:
It used to be that you pleaded guilty and got a reduced sentence, it doesn't seem to be the case with a certain type of crime ie protesting against immigration.
There was no violence involved on his part,just abusive language,he was clearly badly advised by his solicitor.
Prisons are under such pressure that people who have committed far more serious crimes than this fella are being let out early.
It doesn't appear very fair or sensible use of our prisons
That depends on how you look at it. Part of any sentence is the deterrent effect. Sending "rioters" to prison has the effect of making some people think about what could happen.

captain_cynic

15,569 posts

112 months

Drumroll said:
Countdown said:
"Awww....somebody whose views I share has been locked up, it's SO unfair!!!".

Behave like a prick, get treated like a prick.
Exactly.
Pretty much this.

"We want harsher laws and longer sentences"... One of their own pleads guilty to a violent offence "no, not like that".

Patio

1,263 posts

28 months

paulw123 said:
Shouldn't have pleaded guilty. Much like the lady who tweeted. They had nothing on him.
Daft sentence considering what others get.

Do wonder if people like him are getting poor legal advice and effectively bring coherced into admitting to convictions.
This....

I'd imagine he pleaded guilty some time ago as most now know(Ricky jones) that you just plead not guilty and you're off scott free irrespective of being recorded inciting violence, or in this guys case, being present and shouting!

JuanCarlosFandango

9,187 posts

88 months

Blasphemy

otolith

62,522 posts

221 months

Bluevanman said:
Are you suggesting he would have got a 45 month sentence if he hadn't pleaded guilty ?
Maximum sentence for violent disorder is 60 months.

Sentencing range for a category B culpability in a category 1 incident is 24-48 months.

Racial abuse is a statutory aggravating factor.

https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/violen...

BlackTails

1,861 posts

72 months

paulw123 said:
Shouldn't have pleaded guilty. Much like the lady who tweeted. They had nothing on him.
Daft sentence considering what others get.

Do wonder if people like him are getting poor legal advice and effectively bring coherced into admitting to convictions.
Public Order Act 1986

2 Violent disorder.
(1)Where 3 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety, each of the persons using or threatening unlawful violence is guilty of violent disorder.

(2)It is immaterial whether or not the 3 or more use or threaten unlawful violence simultaneously.

(3)No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at the scene.

(4)Violent disorder may be committed in private as well as in public places.

(5)A person guilty of violent disorder is liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or a fine or both, or on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both.


Seems to me that he was correctly advised to plead guilty, based on what’s said in the article. It’s the objective threat of violence in the circumstances that undid him. I’d assume the prosecution had some people lined up to say that they feared for their personal safety.

If you want to have a pop at someone, have a pop at the Government in 1986 that passed this. Conservative, under Thatcher.

iphonedyou

9,953 posts

174 months

How's the thread going for you, OP?