Baby, Toddler & a Child murdered in one day on Teesside

[ben5575]

Hidden amongst the excitement of who wore what hat/broach at Trumps visit is:

Neglect: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crl50xw84d7o

Murder and rape of a 2 year old: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx20ne0r272o

Murder of an 8 year old: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7v1r3ldd0vo

All in one day. All within 7 miles of each other.

[ChocolateFrog]

My OH works in a very deprived school.

The threshold for intervention from social services is unbelievably, ridiculously high.

The situations kids are left in when the authorities know full well the circumstances is enough to make anyone with a conscience cry. What it's like in the ones that fall through the cracks god only knows, well this st I suppose.

[ben5575]

My wife works in peads at one of the local hospitals. It was her that tipped me off to these three stories otherwise I would never have seen it.

Should add that none of these involved her particular hospital.

[ben5575]

Man and woman in court over 2 yo death. I now know some of the details which aren’t public. This is Baby P levels of abuse and rape.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2d1mmpj42o

Mother in court for killing her 8yo son. There’s more to come about how she did this which isn’t yet public as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrp6yk4dpdo

I don’t understand how this isn’t front page news (other than they’re all white).

[Bathroom_Security]

Became a dad recently and the thought of raping a child brings a whole other meaning now.

2 years old ffs. Waste of life, and what little there was was awful.

I hope these s get gang raped in prison. Repeatedly.

[ChevronB19]

Bathroom_Security said:

Became a dad recently and the thought of raping a child brings a whole other meaning now.

2 years old ffs. Waste of life, and what little there was was awful.

I hope these s get gang raped in prison. Repeatedly.

Should they be found guilty, then they deserve every (legal) sanction available.

But your response is both to condemn rape and then advocate extra judicial rape?

[DeadShed]

ChocolateFrog said:

My OH works in a very deprived school.

The threshold for intervention from social services is unbelievably, ridiculously high.

The situations kids are left in when the authorities know full well the circumstances is enough to make anyone with a conscience cry. What it's like in the ones that fall through the cracks god only knows, well this st I suppose.

Police, school and social services budgets are stretched so thin that it s no surprise unfortunately. Lots of services are past breaking point and patched back together with duct tape, gum and prayer.

People will be put through the ringer, there will be statements about “lessons learned” and then everyone will be forced to go back to spinning too many plates until eventually another one drops.

Edited by DeadShed on Saturday 20th September 08:44

[butchstewie]

ben5575 said:

Man and woman in court over 2 yo death. I now know some of the details which aren t public. This is Baby P levels of abuse and rape.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2d1mmpj42o

Mother in court for killing her 8yo son. There s more to come about how she did this which isn t yet public as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrp6yk4dpdo

I don t understand how this isn t front page news (other than they re all white).

I don't think it's a "because they're white" thing I think it's just some bloody awful almost normalisation of this kind of abhorrent behaviour where it almost turns into "just another story".

Grim even saying it and that isn't to excuse it - you'd think each one of those should be headline news.

[Countdown]

ChocolateFrog said:

My OH works in a very deprived school.

The threshold for intervention from social services is unbelievably, ridiculously high.

The situations kids are left in when the authorities know full well the circumstances is enough to make anyone with a conscience cry. What it's like in the ones that fall through the cracks god only knows, well this st I suppose.

One of my kids is a child protection lawyer. It is extremely hard for Social Services to take a child away from its parents.

On a related note the number of children taken into care is very high and the cost is shocking (up to £5k per week k)

Edited by Countdown on Saturday 20th September 09:21

[eldar]

ChevronB19 said:

Bathroom_Security said:

Became a dad recently and the thought of raping a child brings a whole other meaning now.

2 years old ffs. Waste of life, and what little there was was awful.

I hope these s get gang raped in prison. Repeatedly.

Should they be found guilty, then they deserve every (legal) sanction available.

But your response is both to condemn rape and then advocate extra judicial rape?

Understandable reaction, particularly from a parent of a similarly aged child. Anger, frustration, sadness, empathy are valid reactions.

Easy, though, from atop an ivory tower to do a little white knight sniping.

[ChevronB19]

eldar said:

ChevronB19 said:

Bathroom_Security said:

Became a dad recently and the thought of raping a child brings a whole other meaning now.

2 years old ffs. Waste of life, and what little there was was awful.

I hope these s get gang raped in prison. Repeatedly.

Should they be found guilty, then they deserve every (legal) sanction available.

But your response is both to condemn rape and then advocate extra judicial rape?

Understandable reaction, particularly from a parent of a similarly aged child. Anger, frustration, sadness, empathy are valid reactions.

Easy, though, from atop an ivory tower to do a little white knight sniping.

No white knighting or ivory tower, I have a kid too.

[eldar]

ChevronB19 said:

eldar said:

ChevronB19 said:

Bathroom_Security said:

Became a dad recently and the thought of raping a child brings a whole other meaning now.

2 years old ffs. Waste of life, and what little there was was awful.

I hope these s get gang raped in prison. Repeatedly.

Should they be found guilty, then they deserve every (legal) sanction available.

But your response is both to condemn rape and then advocate extra judicial rape?

Understandable reaction, particularly from a parent of a similarly aged child. Anger, frustration, sadness, empathy are valid reactions.

Easy, though, from atop an ivory tower to do a little white knight sniping.

No white knighting or ivory tower, I have a kid too.

Fair enough, your post came across to me as a little patronising. Yeah, I'd cut their knackers off with a rusty chainsaw, at least in my head.

[Jasandjules]

ChocolateFrog said:

The situations kids are left in when the authorities know full well the circumstances is enough to make anyone with a conscience cry. What it's like in the ones that fall through the cracks god only knows, well this st I suppose.

You must be wrong I am afraid because Labour MPs have written and explained to me that it is home educated children who are at risk, children in school are quite safe.

What a sorry world we live in where such things can happen. I can not understand how anyone can hurt a 2 year old FFS.

[Rivenink]

eldar said:

ChevronB19 said:

eldar said:

ChevronB19 said:

Bathroom_Security said:

Became a dad recently and the thought of raping a child brings a whole other meaning now.

2 years old ffs. Waste of life, and what little there was was awful.

I hope these s get gang raped in prison. Repeatedly.

Should they be found guilty, then they deserve every (legal) sanction available.

But your response is both to condemn rape and then advocate extra judicial rape?

Understandable reaction, particularly from a parent of a similarly aged child. Anger, frustration, sadness, empathy are valid reactions.

Easy, though, from atop an ivory tower to do a little white knight sniping.

No white knighting or ivory tower, I have a kid too.

Fair enough, your post came across to me as a little patronising. Yeah, I'd cut their knackers off with a rusty chainsaw, at least in my head.

It's sadly a valid point though. These threads go the same way with folks trying to out-do each other on the most creative forms of torture they can think of for people who, if they did what they're accused of, absolutely deserve all of it.

It relieves some of the emotional horror at the crimes, but it also means people do not ponder deeply the question of "why" people commit these crimes and what could be done to prevent them from happening. They settle on reassuring themselves that horrific punishments would surely be an effective deterrent, and think no more on it.

[ben5575]

And that's really my point in posting these stories - if nothing else it's to stop them from simply disappearing under 'local news'. The kids in these stories deserve more than that.

The mechanism of the 8yo's death and the extent of the injuries to the toddler will no doubt become public in the near future.

[steveatesh]

butchstewie said:

ben5575 said:

Man and woman in court over 2 yo death. I now know some of the details which aren t public. This is Baby P levels of abuse and rape.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2d1mmpj42o

Mother in court for killing her 8yo son. There s more to come about how she did this which isn t yet public as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrp6yk4dpdo

I don t understand how this isn t front page news (other than they re all white).

I don't think it's a "because they're white" thing I think it's just some bloody awful almost normalisation of this kind of abhorrent behaviour where it almost turns into "just another story".

Grim even saying it and that isn't to excuse it - you'd think each one of those should be headline news.

My opinion, and thats all it is, is that it was not more widely reported because of the state visit and the fact that it is in the "far" north of Middlesbrough. Well away from the M25 Bubble and therefore not really that important. `Other opinions are available and just as valid.

[dcb]

steveatesh said:

My opinion, and thats all it is, is that it was not more widely reported because of the state visit and the fact that it is in the "far" north of Middlesbrough. Well away from the M25 Bubble and therefore not really that important. `Other opinions are available and just as valid.

Middlesbro is a rough old town. I don't go there after dark. I am not that keen
on going during the day. Hartlepool might be reasonably described as "stabby",
but IMHO Middlesbro should be avoided at all costs.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/labourmarket...

has some visualisations.

29% of folks not economically active. Compare with Lambeth's rate of 21%,
which includes such inner city "challenging" areas as Brixton.

OTOH, crime rates don't vary much. About 130 per thousand (!) in both
Brixton and Middlesbro.

Mind you, average house prices of £140K in Middlesbro, so not all bad news.

[butchstewie]

steveatesh said:

My opinion, and thats all it is, is that it was not more widely reported because of the state visit and the fact that it is in the "far" north of Middlesbrough. Well away from the M25 Bubble and therefore not really that important. `Other opinions are available and just as valid.

That did occur to me.

Not so much the far north element but the "not London" side of it.

[steveatesh]

dcb said:

Middlesbro is a rough old town. I don't go there after dark. I am not that keen
on going during the day. Hartlepool might be reasonably described as "stabby",
but IMHO Middlesbro should be avoided at all costs.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/labourmarket...

has some visualisations.

29% of folks not economically active. Compare with Lambeth's rate of 21%,
which includes such inner city "challenging" areas as Brixton.

OTOH, crime rates don't vary much. About 130 per thousand (!) in both
Brixton and Middlesbro.

Mind you, average house prices of £140K in Middlesbro, so not all bad news.

Indeed, I know how Middlesbrough stands in terms of the indicator, it has been like that for years. I come from Sunderland which I consider to be a st hole although some areas are improving. Some of my family are from Hartlepool and I think it’s a worse sthole than here, but Middlesbrough is a diarrhoea hole of the worst order.

[dcb]

steveatesh said:

Indeed, I know how Middlesbrough stands in terms of the indicator, it has been like that for years. I come from Sunderland which I consider to be a st hole although some areas are improving. Some of my family are from Hartlepool and I think it s a worse sthole than here, but Middlesbrough is a diarrhoea hole of the worst order.

For Southerners and foreigners, I should make clear the various tribes
of NE England, from North to South.

Geordies: River Tyne area. Somewhat fond of a drink.

Maccams: River Wear area. Not as posh as the Geordies.

Monkey Hangers: Residents of Hartlepool. The locals hanged a monkey
in about 1800, because they thought it was a French spy.

Smoggies: River Tees area. It used to be a very industrial area and it
used to be said that you could tell when the sun was shining, as the
smog went yellow.

All these tribes hate each other's guts and the local football matches
are substitute war. These days, it's all post-industrial and not much has
replaced the old industries so more folks than other places rely on state benefits.

OTOH, Bill Bryson was much taken with Durham City.