Reparations for slavery

[Ridgemont]

I tried finding the original thread on this but failed.

Lenny Henry has co-written a book arguing that £18trn of reparations are due to victims of UK slavery practice. Dovetailing with the Caricom statement to the same effect.

https://archive.fo/20251007173804/https://www.tele...

Admittedly the article above spends a fair amount of its time shooting holes in the argument some included below:

1) the sum would be based on the net tax take of the UK for the next 21 years total

2)reparations for BAME British as well who would be effectively be taxing themselves to repay themselves

3) be paid for by people who are 200 years divorced from slavery

4) by say descendants of migrants who never had anything todo with slavery (as an Catholic Irish/scot I might object)

5) and unilaterally by the UK despite its profile in international slavery being somewhat less than say Spain, the US or the Barbary pirates

6) Britain’s role in killing the international slave trade

7) the undoubted scars that Roman slavery, Viking thralldom and Norman serfdom imposed on this country

8) and the persistence of actual slavery today

I have a humble proposition to resolve the situation:

We formally recognise slaves as a class as per the

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings...

And skip the reparations?
Cheaper and it appears less controversial?
It would certainly address issues around recruitment? And possibly productivity?

Henry believes this process may allow us a ‘sigh of relief’.
I propose the opposite: legalising it would allow us to move on with much of the modern world apparently.

Any takers?

And if not, I would be intrigued to know how much people would be prepared to pay to get this off ‘our’ backs?
£500 per annum per capita for the rest of your life and your ancestors for the next 521 years?

And don’t forget Lord Hermer, the attorney general, who has recommended the same will be marking your homework!

[Stick Legs]

Edited by Stick Legs on Wednesday 8th October 01:44

[Ridgemont]

Stick Legs said:

Excellent! What % of the £18trn are you proposing to pay?

[Stick Legs]

Given that 1/2 my lineage is part of the Irish diaspora that went across the Atlantic to America in the early 1900's, and 1/4 of my lineage is Anglo/Indian I was rather hoping for a cheque in the post.

[Ridgemont]

Stick Legs said:

Given that 1/2 my lineage is part of the Irish diaspora that went across the Atlantic to America in the early 1900's, and 1/4 of my lineage is Anglo/Indian I was rather hoping for a cheque in the post.

Good luck on that one!
No excuses: pony up.

[Stick Legs]

Ridgemont said:

Stick Legs said:

Given that 1/2 my lineage is part of the Irish diaspora that went across the Atlantic to America in the early 1900's, and 1/4 of my lineage is Anglo/Indian I was rather hoping for a cheque in the post.

Good luck on that one!
No excuses: pony up.

It does rather illustrate the difficulty on demanding reparations from 'people who look like slave owners' for 'people who look like slaves'.

There's probably a catchy phrase for generalising groups of people based on skin colour...

[Ridgemont]

Stick Legs said:

Ridgemont said:

Stick Legs said:

Given that 1/2 my lineage is part of the Irish diaspora that went across the Atlantic to America in the early 1900's, and 1/4 of my lineage is Anglo/Indian I was rather hoping for a cheque in the post.

Good luck on that one!
No excuses: pony up.

It does rather illustrate the difficulty on demanding reparations from 'people who look like slave owners' for 'people who look like slaves'.

There's probably a catchy phrase for generalising groups of people based on skin colour...

Well quite.

In reality this was condensed down to probably a few hundred aristocratic families who were busy grinding their similarly pale faced minions into the dust ala a slightly less than PG version of Downton Abbey.

If someone wants to sue the Grosvenor or Draxes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/12/hes-...

and the like for proceeds from slavery they can fill their boots.

They might get a few billion.

[Ridgemont]

Cracking name by the way:

Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

[Stick Legs]

Ridgemont said:

Cracking name by the way:

Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

Gets a bye from me just for that.

[speedy_thrills]

Oh, no, I think there's some confusion. We're just happy to have ended the slave trade with the Bombardment of Algiers and West Africa Squadron. We aren't asking for any money for doing it, it was the right thing to do. Enjoy your freedom, no charge.

[pheonix478]

The time has come for reparations to start to make good the injustice us Caribbean people continue to suffer to this day. There's an Outerlimits SV29 coming up for sale soon so if you could stretch to about $300k that would help aleive my pain and anguish. We just need rid of Starmer and Lammy will deliver!

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Or we can just enter into absolutely zero discussions about it with any pressure groups, at all, ever.

They can shout into the void about how unfair things are.....

[daqinggregg]

Maybe Lenny should consider paying his fellow people reparations, for mocking them, (during that enlightened era comedy) taking the ‘gypsies kiss’ out of their accents and culture in his quest to earn a coin.

Slavery was abhorrent and anyone who believes it doesn’t exist today is woefully uninformed. The UK should lead by example (which I think its doing) by promoting a fair and egalitarian society for the rest of the world to see.

Lenny with his profile as a person from an oppressed minority, should be at the forefront of that fight to abolish slavery, irrespective of the victim’s identity. He could start by catching an aeroplane to …………..!

Oh, no coin in that.

[Murph7355]

Lenny Henry is welcome to his opinion and free to take his sigh of relief whenever he chooses. I'm sure the slave trade has had a material impact on his life in the UK.

I have nothing to get off my back. I wasn't around when slavery was a thing. Nor were my parents. Or theirs. Or theirs. And nobody I have ever known was impacted by it on either side.

There are segments of our society that seem intent on us collectively beating ourselves up at every opportunity. It's ridiculous and needs no air time whatsoever. Unfortunately there are some in power who might be inclined to keep giving it air time.

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

Lenny Henry has said that " every black British person to receive slavery reparations paid for by the taxpayer"

His parents voluntarily moved to the UK from Jamaica, so nothing to do with slavery, yet he still thinks he should get some of this money?

I don't get it, why is something that happened 200 years ago to people who most likely not related to you at all mean you should receive repatriations?

[fridaypassion]

I mean are they just trying to promote racial tension in this country? Just leave it alone it's in the distant past.

Charlie Kirk shut this one down pretty well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLVJ0h_pzhI

[Reciprocating mass]

Just use the money that rome owe England after the 400 years of enslavement,

[PlywoodPascal]

Ridgemont said:

Well quite.

In reality this was condensed down to probably a few hundred aristocratic families who were busy grinding their similarly pale faced minions into the dust ala a slightly less than PG version of Downton Abbey.

Don’t you mean more than PG?

[PlywoodPascal]

Murph7355 said:

Lenny Henry is welcome to his opinion and free to take his sigh of relief whenever he chooses. I'm sure the slave trade has had a material impact on his life in the UK.

I have nothing to get off my back. I wasn't around when slavery was a thing. Nor were my parents. Or theirs. Or theirs. And nobody I have ever known was impacted by it on either side.

There are segments of our society that seem intent on us collectively beating ourselves up at every opportunity. It's ridiculous and needs no air time whatsoever. Unfortunately there are some in power who might be inclined to keep giving it air time.

But you (we) do still benefit from some advantages that the history of slavery has conferred upon our country and some groups of people in it. And other groups (countries) do still suffer structural disadvantages caused by the slave trade and slavery.

So whilst I agree completely you (we) cannot be complicit in the acts committed - which few will argue were justifiable or correct - there is an argument that can be made that the beneficiaries (the benefit is now rather diluted) should act to removed the harms (which are also now in some ways - some not - rather diluted) caused by the historic act.

But the question then is how - how do you quantify the unquantifiable in order to determine the appropriate recompense? Or is sentiment enough? It is impossible, but that’s an insufficient argument against doing it if you are swayed by the moral case.

So when you boil it down - the question is, should countries make reparations for historic wrongs? Yes or no? Thinking about this, Germany paid reparations after ww2. Why were those justified (it was then, too, all in the past), but reparations for slavery not?

[Derek Smith]

I 'get it' in the sense that there's a series of crimes where slaves were bought, then transported to the Americas and sold on at a profit. That's dealing in humans. The UK did not enslave them. That was done by Africans in Africa. Is there any call for reparations from them?

These humans were treated horrifically by everyone who had control over them. It is a stain on . . . well, there's the problem. Who's to blame? Slavery has always gone on, and still does of course. There were raids on the south coast of England, Wales and Ireland by the 'Barbary' slavers well into the 19thC.

The human cost in incalculable. 18tn is just a figure. It can be accepted or rejected. There's little logic to it. But who pays?

My family did not benefit from the slave trade. Some of my family were enslaved (I'm told) by press gangs. The ones who did are those with statues in places that did benefit - Bristol comes to mind. There was little in the way of trickle-down economics in those days. More than today of course and off-shore accounts were not so readily available. Even if my family of 200 years ago did benefit, it would be a small, microscopic percentage of the total. Come to that, taxes, including mine, were given to the slave traders, even well into this century. I want that back.

It's an illogical argument. Henry would be paying into the fund himself - unless it is based on racial grounds of course, which I think would be illegal. Also, part of my family comes from Ireland. Southern Ireland. My gran was taken from her family of Gypsies at the age of 6 or so for her own safety and enslaved in a nun-run workhouse. Money please.

There were (and are) many injustices imposed on mass victims throughout history, of which the slave trade is but one. Much was criminal, even then. But the chances of punishment of offenders is zero and identifying those who benefit from it today even less.