Boys to be sent on courses to tackle misogyny in schools
Discussion
BBC News said:
Teachers will be given training to spot and tackle misogyny in the classroom, while high-risk pupils could be sent on behavioural courses as part of the government's strategy to halve violence against women and girls in the next decade.
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Under the new plans, schools will send high-risk students to get extra care and support, including behavioural courses to tackle their prejudice against women and girls.
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Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch suggested the classes for teenage boys were only being rolled out because "some people in Labour" watched Adolescence - the Netflix drama that explored the impact of social media and influencers on teenage boys.
She said £20m was "a pittance" and the government needed to put more police officers on the street, stop "people, who come from cultures that don't respect women, coming into our country", and remove foreign criminals as soon as they commit crimes.
Going to be super-interesting to see how this works out in practise. ...
Under the new plans, schools will send high-risk students to get extra care and support, including behavioural courses to tackle their prejudice against women and girls.
...
Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch suggested the classes for teenage boys were only being rolled out because "some people in Labour" watched Adolescence - the Netflix drama that explored the impact of social media and influencers on teenage boys.
She said £20m was "a pittance" and the government needed to put more police officers on the street, stop "people, who come from cultures that don't respect women, coming into our country", and remove foreign criminals as soon as they commit crimes.
Kemi's comment - "She said £20m was "a pittance" and the government needed to put more police officers on the street, stop "people, who come from cultures that don't respect women, coming into our country", and remove foreign criminals as soon as they commit crimes" - might well have merit, but it's reductive.
For example, here in Northern Ireland almost half of those arrested for the summer riots, ostensibly in support of 'protecting our women and children', had themselves been investigated for domestic abuse. Which is a bit mad.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...
For example, here in Northern Ireland almost half of those arrested for the summer riots, ostensibly in support of 'protecting our women and children', had themselves been investigated for domestic abuse. Which is a bit mad.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-i...
I started a thread here a couple of months back around some of the challenges with awareness of harassment of women and girls.
A bit like Kemi it just turned into almost complete denial and (to paraphrase) a view that it's just migrants and foreigners doing it.
The levels of denial were actually weird.
Like I said I kind of get that there might be a view that teachers already have enough to do and is this stuff the role of the school to do but I don't know if I can think of a downside in trying to ensure our schools throw out well adjusted kids.
A bit like Kemi it just turned into almost complete denial and (to paraphrase) a view that it's just migrants and foreigners doing it.
The levels of denial were actually weird.
Like I said I kind of get that there might be a view that teachers already have enough to do and is this stuff the role of the school to do but I don't know if I can think of a downside in trying to ensure our schools throw out well adjusted kids.
butchstewie said:
A bit like Kemi it just turned into almost complete denial and (to paraphrase) a view that it's just migrants and foreigners doing it.
.
It's also a stupid argument, where does any of this exclude migrant and foreign born boys?.
And you're right it will be a lot of the people that shout about 'save our women and children' that oppose this
butchstewie said:
I don't think a bit of focus on it is a bad thing.
Some of the stats are absolutely shocking and whilst I do wonder how much of this stuff is going to be dumped on teachers I'm also not sure we can or should continue turning out some absolute wronguns.
I'm not opposed to this, in principle, as long as it actually works.Some of the stats are absolutely shocking and whilst I do wonder how much of this stuff is going to be dumped on teachers I'm also not sure we can or should continue turning out some absolute wronguns.
I am a little concerned that this may exacerbate the boys being left behind stuff. I don't have kids - I thought the rise of Andrew Tate/swing of young men to the right was linked to, basically - paraphrasing, boys feeling that society deems them to be problematic.
butchstewie said:
I don't think a bit of focus on it is a bad thing.
Some of the stats are absolutely shocking and whilst I do wonder how much of this stuff is going to be dumped on teachers I'm also not sure we can or should continue turning out some absolute wronguns.
I agree we should not produce wrong uns but maybe the fault lies with parents not schools. I don't know if you have kids but as a dad of a boy you have to talk to them about things the hear an see online Andrew tate springs to mind. You have to challabge how they perceive him (my son told me he was cool beacuse he has a bugatti, I had to then explain why having a supermarket might not be the only thing he was known for).Some of the stats are absolutely shocking and whilst I do wonder how much of this stuff is going to be dumped on teachers I'm also not sure we can or should continue turning out some absolute wronguns.
We do have issues with misogynistic behaviour but we let pedophiles like Saville roam children's hospitals and we let grooming gangs abuse young girls etc I am not sure 11 year old are the problem we need to face
Gecko1978 said:
We do have issues with misogynistic behaviour but we let pedophiles like Saville roam children's hospitals and we let grooming gangs abuse young girls etc I am not sure 11 year old are the problem we need to face
Why does it have to be either or.and those 11 year olds aren't 11 year old for ever, maybe teaching this early may stop them abusing Women in later life.
chrispmartha said:
Gecko1978 said:
We do have issues with misogynistic behaviour but we let pedophiles like Saville roam children's hospitals and we let grooming gangs abuse young girls etc I am not sure 11 year old are the problem we need to face
Why does it have to be either or.and those 11 year olds aren't 11 year old for ever, maybe teaching this early may stop them abusing Women in later life.
Gecko1978 said:
I agree we should not produce wrong uns but maybe the fault lies with parents not schools. I don't know if you have kids but as a dad of a boy you have to talk to them about things the hear an see online Andrew tate springs to mind. You have to challabge how they perceive him (my son told me he was cool beacuse he has a bugatti, I had to then explain why having a supermarket might not be the only thing he was known for).
We do have issues with misogynistic behaviour but we let pedophiles like Saville roam children's hospitals and we let grooming gangs abuse young girls etc I am not sure 11 year old are the problem we need to face
Think of it this way.We do have issues with misogynistic behaviour but we let pedophiles like Saville roam children's hospitals and we let grooming gangs abuse young girls etc I am not sure 11 year old are the problem we need to face
Go look on the Tate threads on here or pretty much any thread about women in NP&E and see some of the views on display.
Now ask yourself if those people have children and that's the sort of thing they hear from at least on of their parents (most likely their father given the make-up of PistonHeads) what chance do they stand?
You're back to that thing where there's clearly a balance to be had where it isn't a schools responsibility to teach this stuff but kids spend so much time at school that clearly the school plays a role what sort of kids they're producing.
I'd sooner we produced well adjusted young adults than some horror shows because we take the view it's entirely down to the parents - even if the bulk of it clearly should be if the parents were doing their job.
chrispmartha said:
butchstewie said:
A bit like Kemi it just turned into almost complete denial and (to paraphrase) a view that it's just migrants and foreigners doing it.
.
It's also a stupid argument, where does any of this exclude migrant and foreign born boys?.
And you're right it will be a lot of the people that shout about 'save our women and children' that oppose this
Neither guest would even engage with the question. It was hilarious. This will go the same way as everything else this government does. Loads of talk but it will fall flat as soon as it contacts reality.
The discussion starts at 3.25.00 and the question is asked at 3.34.00.
https://www.youtube.com/live/-wo9Yr5C9No?si=1iFm-e...
I think this is a well intentioned move, but these points occur to me.
First, the fact that children's time in school is in the order of 10-15% of their total time (assuming 6 hours a day Monday to Friday for 39 weeks each year). They may well spend more time on social media than in school, for example.
Second is the issue of what is deemed misogyny. For example, the lyrics of some rap artists popular with youngsters are pretty dubious; is sharing a rap track referencing hoes (not the garden implement) worthy of sending a child on a course? Would suggesting that women who wear a Burqa resemble a letter box be deemed misogynistic? Can a boy share a jibe about women drivers? Where, in other words, do we draw the line?
Third, who would deliver these courses? If a school could not find the money to employ SEN specialists but could employ specialists to tackle misogyny I imagine the school's priorities would be criticised. The school might use their own teachers but would they have the appropriate skills or training?
First, the fact that children's time in school is in the order of 10-15% of their total time (assuming 6 hours a day Monday to Friday for 39 weeks each year). They may well spend more time on social media than in school, for example.
Second is the issue of what is deemed misogyny. For example, the lyrics of some rap artists popular with youngsters are pretty dubious; is sharing a rap track referencing hoes (not the garden implement) worthy of sending a child on a course? Would suggesting that women who wear a Burqa resemble a letter box be deemed misogynistic? Can a boy share a jibe about women drivers? Where, in other words, do we draw the line?
Third, who would deliver these courses? If a school could not find the money to employ SEN specialists but could employ specialists to tackle misogyny I imagine the school's priorities would be criticised. The school might use their own teachers but would they have the appropriate skills or training?
butchstewie said:
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Like I said I kind of get that there might be a view that teachers already have enough to do and is this stuff the role of the school to do but I don't know if I can think of a downside in trying to ensure our schools throw out well adjusted kids.
I guess the downside is that every minute teachers spend on this, they aren't spending on STEM or other stuff that should be what they're doing.Like I said I kind of get that there might be a view that teachers already have enough to do and is this stuff the role of the school to do but I don't know if I can think of a downside in trying to ensure our schools throw out well adjusted kids.
Schools aren't producing maladjusted kids. Parents are. But because that nut is difficult to crack, every single time we look to make it someone else's problem to deal with it, be it teaching them not to be little t
ts, feeding them or showing them how to wipe their arses or read.The state should not be picking up this tab.
Ideal world you're quite right Murph but we don't live in one and I do think it's fair to ask which "tab" costs more in the long run.
Some reasonably "light touch" education and awareness at school or the cost in both human and financial terms when some absolute wrongun ends up locked up for sexual assault or rape or even worse because they didn't get taught at home that "no means no" and dad (or the latest boyfriend in some cases) shouting at and hitting mum isn't normal and so on.
Some reasonably "light touch" education and awareness at school or the cost in both human and financial terms when some absolute wrongun ends up locked up for sexual assault or rape or even worse because they didn't get taught at home that "no means no" and dad (or the latest boyfriend in some cases) shouting at and hitting mum isn't normal and so on.
A little more here on the "small minority" thing.
VAWG strategy to better protect children from misogyny and abuse
"The plans unveiled today will focus on prevention and tackling the root causes of abuse, and come as the latest stats show that nearly 40% of teenagers in relationships are a victim of relationship abuse and over 40% of young men hold a positive view of Andrew Tate."
I didn't expect that.
VAWG strategy to better protect children from misogyny and abuse
"The plans unveiled today will focus on prevention and tackling the root causes of abuse, and come as the latest stats show that nearly 40% of teenagers in relationships are a victim of relationship abuse and over 40% of young men hold a positive view of Andrew Tate."
I didn't expect that.
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