Student loans

[Slow.Patrol]

I've been following Rupert Lowe on Facebook, mostly because he often digs up random stuff if interest.

Recently he has been looking at student loans.

"I've been investigating student loans, and there are shocking findings.

How much money is missing? It is staggering.

'Value of loans where income could not be verified'?

£12,801,872,323.

This will be various types of graduates, but a vast percentage will be foreign students who have left without repaying their loans.

I believe there is an industrial scam, where foreign nationals are able to claim loans and then abscond with no intention of ever repaying it.

My questioning to ministers has uncovered that 'cases of misrepresentation in student finance applications' relating to migrant worker fraud has soared from 6 in 20/21 to 301 in 24/25.

I believe there is a particular issue with Romanians.

The 'Unique Number of Loan Borrowers' from Romania has gone from 25,046 in 19/20 to 78,325 in 23/24.

This vastly outstrips any other country. Does that not sound alarm bells?

Why are Romanians allowed to claim student loans? It should be restricted to British students and British students only. But just look at how much it's increased...

I am urging Government to launch a full investigation. Billions and billions gone. Who’s accountable? Who’s been sacked? Where is the investigation?

This is gross incompetence at best, industrial fraud at worst. There must be severe consequences.

Let's ban foreigners from these loans, and use the savings to help scrap interest altogether on student debt for British boys and girls."

Is this yet another scandal?

[M1AGM]

Yes

[sparta6]

Slow.Patrol said:

I've been following Rupert Lowe on Facebook, mostly because he often digs up random stuff if interest.

Recently he has been looking at student loans.

"I've been investigating student loans, and there are shocking findings.

How much money is missing? It is staggering.

'Value of loans where income could not be verified'?

£12,801,872,323.

This will be various types of graduates, but a vast percentage will be foreign students who have left without repaying their loans.

I believe there is an industrial scam, where foreign nationals are able to claim loans and then abscond with no intention of ever repaying it.

My questioning to ministers has uncovered that 'cases of misrepresentation in student finance applications' relating to migrant worker fraud has soared from 6 in 20/21 to 301 in 24/25.

I believe there is a particular issue with Romanians.

The 'Unique Number of Loan Borrowers' from Romania has gone from 25,046 in 19/20 to 78,325 in 23/24.

This vastly outstrips any other country. Does that not sound alarm bells?

Why are Romanians allowed to claim student loans? It should be restricted to British students and British students only. But just look at how much it's increased...

I am urging Government to launch a full investigation. Billions and billions gone. Who s accountable? Who s been sacked? Where is the investigation?

This is gross incompetence at best, industrial fraud at worst. There must be severe consequences.

Let's ban foreigners from these loans, and use the savings to help scrap interest altogether on student debt for British boys and girls."

Is this yet another scandal?

Certainly deserves closer scrutiny.

Generally, Romania = trouble.
We once awarded a contract to a Romanian company. Never again.

[Greenmantle]

Obviously the devil is in the detail.
What proportion is fees and what proportion is maintenance?
In my mind maintenance should be a very small fraction compared to fees.
Fraud in fees and we should be looking very hard at the education establishment in question.
Fraud in maintenance should be eradicated since in my mind it is low hanging fruit through trend analysis.
Have to agree one door that needs to be closed is where the applicant doesn't reside in our boarders.

[Mr Penguin]

Slow.Patrol said:

I believe there is a particular issue with Romanians.

The 'Unique Number of Loan Borrowers' from Romania has gone from 25,046 in 19/20 to 78,325 in 23/24.

This vastly outstrips any other country. Does that not sound alarm bells?

How many per person and adjusted for age? Romanians came here much later than other nationalities so it wouldn't surprise me that they are younger and more likely to do degrees. I think there are also a lot more Romanians here than other nationalities.

UK students abroad often don't report their income to the SLC, especially on plan 2, since they won't pay it all off anyway and want to save the expense.

HMRC and the SLC are also completely incompetent. I was paying my loan for eight years before I realised HMRC were collecting it but not sending the money to the SLC.

[irc]

Slow.Patrol said:

Let's ban foreigners from these loans, and use the savings to help scrap interest altogether on student debt for British boys and girls."

Is this yet another scandal?

Undoubtably. I see no good reason that non UK citizens should be given govt backed loans. There is no incentive for them to remain in the UK and pay them of for 30/40 years.

As many loans will never be repaid this is effectively a huge subsidy being given to non UK citizens. Why?

[Mrr T]

irc said:

Slow.Patrol said:

Let's ban foreigners from these loans, and use the savings to help scrap interest altogether on student debt for British boys and girls."

Is this yet another scandal?

Undoubtably. I see no good reason that non UK citizens should be given govt backed loans. There is no incentive for them to remain in the UK and pay them of for 30/40 years.

As many loans will never be repaid this is effectively a huge subsidy being given to non UK citizens. Why?

There's a very good reason. They will have settled status. So there rights are protected by the WA. An agreement I believe Lowe voted for.

Edited by Mrr T on Sunday 8th February 15:34

[Rivenink]

So let me get this clear in my head:

1. Student loans are in fact a student tax, because most never pay off the loan principle + insane interest within the 30 years of working.

2. EU Citizens, educated here while their parents were living & working in the UK according to their freedom of movement rights, followed the system and took out the "loans".

3. UK withdrew from the EU, agreed to respect EU Citizens rights in the Withdrawal Agreement.

4. EU citizens, feeling unwelcome and uncertain in all of the chaos leading to the WA, left the UK.

5. Now we get to complain about those EU citizens, after effectively telling them via the rhetoric in the referendum we don't want them, have left and no longer need to report any income to the UK SLC or HMRC.

Apparently this is what we voted for, so we just got to lump it.

[irc]

Mrr T said:

irc said:

Slow.Patrol said:

Let's ban foreigners from these loans, and use the savings to help scrap interest altogether on student debt for British boys and girls."

Is this yet another scandal?

Undoubtably. I see no good reason that non UK citizens should be given govt backed loans. There is no incentive for them to remain in the UK and pay them of for 30/40 years.

As many loans will never be repaid this is effectively a huge subsidy being given to non UK citizens. Why?

There's a very good reason. They will have settled status. So there rights are protected by the WA. An agreement I believe Lowe voted for.

Settled status covers those who were resident here by 2021. So why, for example, has "The 'Unique Number of Loan Borrowers' from Romania has gone from 25,046 in 19/20 to 78,325 in 23/24."?

Edited by Mrr T on Sunday 8th February 15:34

[borcy]

Rivenink said:

So let me get this clear in my head:

....

Looking at the dates, it doesn't appear to be that no.

[StevieBee]

Slow.Patrol said:

Let's ban foreigners from these loans, and use the savings to help scrap interest altogether on student debt for British boys and girls."

Foreign Students are not able to access UK Student Loans. They have to rely on private finance to study in the UK. And they pay significantly more than UK students for the same study.

This has always been the case.

One of the issues here relates to EU students studying here prior to Brexit. They were able to access UK Student Loans. They are still obliged to adhere to the terms of this post Brexit.

You mentioned Romania.....

Many Romanians studied here. Many stayed here following graduation because the Romanian economy had and has not yet matured to a level that would pay them the sort of wages their qualifications would do here. Following Brexit, many returned to Romania. Whilst they remain liable for their student loans, it will be many years yet before they are able to start earning the level of income that would trigger the payments. For many, it's unlikely they'll ever reach that threshold.

So this is one of those 'trade-offs' that we are having to endure to be masters of our own sovereignty.

The other issue is that salaries have stagnated. Keep in mind that these are not loans as such but a tax, the repayment of which only starts when earnings reach threshold. An uncomfortably large proportion of graduates are simply unable to reach that threshold.

But don't worry, as soon as all those Brexit benefits start to kick in, we'll see productivity boost, incomes rise and those debts will be paid off in no time at all!

[ChocolateFrog]

I always like his statements about doing extensive research.

4 days after he last posted about a different topic, which was also extensively researched.

[Mr Penguin]

ChocolateFrog said:

I always like his statements about doing extensive research.

4 days after he last posted about a different topic, which was also extensively researched.

He has a lot of money and pays for a research team AFAIK

[ChocolateFrog]

StevieBee said:

Foreign Students are not able to access UK Student Loans. They have to rely on private finance to study in the UK. And they pay significantly more than UK students for the same study.

This has always been the case.

One of the issues here relates to EU students studying here prior to Brexit. They were able to access UK Student Loans. They are still obliged to adhere to the terms of this post Brexit.

You mentioned Romania.....

Many Romanians studied here. Many stayed here following graduation because the Romanian economy had and has not yet matured to a level that would pay them the sort of wages their qualifications would do here. Following Brexit, many returned to Romania. Whilst they remain liable for their student loans, it will be many years yet before they are able to start earning the level of income that would trigger the payments. For many, it's unlikely they'll ever reach that threshold.

So this is one of those 'trade-offs' that we are having to endure to be masters of our own sovereignty.

The other issue is that salaries have stagnated. Keep in mind that these are not loans as such but a tax, the repayment of which only starts when earnings reach threshold. An uncomfortably large proportion of graduates are simply unable to reach that threshold.

But don't worry, as soon as all those Brexit benefits start to kick in, we'll see productivity boost, incomes rise and those debts will be paid off in no time at all!

That's the most sensible post on the issue.

Doesn't get the frothers frothing quite enough though.


I'd be interested to know how these figures compare to the figures for the amount that will be written off for UK students because they simply won't earn enough.

A very small fraction I'd imagine.

Took me 17 years and Plan 1 loan, the buggers actually owe me money now.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

StevieBee said:

Foreign Students are not able to access UK Student Loans. They have to rely on private finance to study in the UK. And they pay significantly more than UK students for the same study.

This has always been the case.

One of the issues here relates to EU students studying here prior to Brexit. They were able to access UK Student Loans. They are still obliged to adhere to the terms of this post Brexit.

You mentioned Romania.....

Many Romanians studied here. Many stayed here following graduation because the Romanian economy had and has not yet matured to a level that would pay them the sort of wages their qualifications would do here. Following Brexit, many returned to Romania. Whilst they remain liable for their student loans, it will be many years yet before they are able to start earning the level of income that would trigger the payments. For many, it's unlikely they'll ever reach that threshold.

So this is one of those 'trade-offs' that we are having to endure to be masters of our own sovereignty.

The other issue is that salaries have stagnated. Keep in mind that these are not loans as such but a tax, the repayment of which only starts when earnings reach threshold. An uncomfortably large proportion of graduates are simply unable to reach that threshold.

But don't worry, as soon as all those Brexit benefits start to kick in, we'll see productivity boost, incomes rise and those debts will be paid off in no time at all!

I'll tell you one Brexit benefit that kicked in the day we left; the average IQ of EU citizens increased markedly.

[M1AGM]

Yet the number of Romanian borrowers increased dramatically years after brexit.

How does that work?

[stemll]

StevieBee said:

Foreign Students are not able to access UK Student Loans.

Not that simple

gov.uk said:

Your nationality and residency status

You may be eligible for either:

a Tuition Fee Loan and a Maintenance Loan (also known as ‘full support’)
a Tuition Fee Loan only (also known as ‘tuition fee only funding’)
The type of help you can get depends on your nationality and residency status.

If you’re a UK national or Irish citizen or have ‘settled status’ in the UK

You can apply for both a Tuition Fee Loan and Maintenance Loan if both the following apply:

your home is in England
you’ve been continuously living in the UK, Channel Islands or Isle of Man for 3 years before the first day of the month your course starts (apart from temporary absences such as holidays)


If you have a different nationality or you live outside the UK

You may be eligible for a Tuition Fee Loan and Maintenance Loan, for example if:

you’re a UK national who’s been living in the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Gibraltar
you’re a non-UK national who has a valid residency status in the UK
you’re a non-UK national who’s lived in the UK for at least 7 years (if you’re under 18) or at least 20 years or half your life (if you’re over 18)
You may only be eligible for a Tuition Fee Loan and not a Maintenance Loan if you:

have pre-settled status under the EU Settlement Scheme
are a family member of someone with settled status and you’ve been living in the UK

[Sport_Turismo_GTS]

StevieBee said:

Many Romanians studied here. Many stayed here following graduation because the Romanian economy had and has not yet matured to a level that would pay them the sort of wages their qualifications would do here. Following Brexit, many returned to Romania. Whilst they remain liable for their student loans, it will be many years yet before they are able to start earning the level of income that would trigger the payments. For many, it's unlikely they'll ever reach that threshold.

So, your claim is:
1. Lots of Romanians came here to study and took out loans
2. When they finished studying they worked here because wages were much higher here than in Romania
3. After Brexit, and despite the UK making it extremely easy for EU citizens to stay here (quite different to what happened for UK citizens in the EU) and despite wages in Romania still being much lower than in the UK, they suddenly made a very different decision and chose to go home for much lower wages?

That doesn’t seem to stack up to basic scrutiny…

Edited by Sport_Turismo_GTS on Sunday 8th February 18:50

[Gareth79]

This was all exposed by the Sunday Times last year:
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/reve...

[Monsterlime]

All this 'Romanian's are bad' racist bullst needs to stop. I have a Romanian chap on my team, he is fking excellent and a very good bloke, and I have had several others, all very good and very dedicated.

This is just another thinly veiled excuse for racists to be racist.