Austrian climber charged with Manslaughter of partner

[ChocolateFrog]

This is an interesting story.

BBC News - Climber on trial for leaving girlfriend to die on Austria's highest mountain
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yv9plyjgpo

Mistakes were obviously made but I'm leaning towards not guilty.

Whenever I've gone high altitude climbing it's under the assumption that if something goes wrong I'm on my own.

[KAgantua]

Shes not a climber though he is.
Its great being a climber and taking your bird on a trip but Glossknocker??

His decision to get help was right, what is wrong taking her up in the first place.

[ChocolateFrog]

KAgantua said:

Shes not a climber though he is.
Its great being a climber and taking your bird on a trip but Glossknocker??

His decision to get help was right, what is wrong taking her up in the first place.

Well her mother is quoted as saying she was a keen mountaineer who enjoyed night climbing.

So is she a climber or not?

[BikeBikeBIke]

KAgantua said:

Shes not a climber though he is.
Its great being a climber and taking your bird on a trip but Glossknocker??

I've just had a terrific idea for a weekend away with the wife.

[Digga]

ChocolateFrog said:

KAgantua said:

Shes not a climber though he is.
Its great being a climber and taking your bird on a trip but Glossknocker??

His decision to get help was right, what is wrong taking her up in the first place.

Well her mother is quoted as saying she was a keen mountaineer who enjoyed night climbing.

So is she a climber or not?

Definitely curious. Not least, it raises very serious questions for groups or pairs of climbers of differing abilities. How do you become experienced and competent in the first place if no one wants to risk the responsibility of taking you as a 'second'?

[ChocolateFrog]

Digga said:

Definitely curious. Not least, it raises very serious questions for groups or pairs of climbers of differing abilities. How do you become experienced and competent in the first place if no one wants to risk the responsibility of taking you as a 'second'?

Which is why I'm fairly sure this will go not guilty.

If money has exchanged hands then it's more clearly defined but even then things can go wrong that wouldn't automatically be criminal.

Situations can go south very quickly at that height and temperature.

I can also understand not answering the phone if it's -20 and you're busy or starting to panic.

[Richard-390a0]

ChocolateFrog said:

KAgantua said:

Shes not a climber though he is.
Its great being a climber and taking your bird on a trip but Glossknocker??

His decision to get help was right, what is wrong taking her up in the first place.

Well her mother is quoted as saying she was a keen mountaineer who enjoyed night climbing.

So is she a climber or not?

From that BBC article - "Her mother has told German media that she loved mountain hiking at night." To me hiking & climbing are two different activities.

& further would a climber, actually attempt a climb in snowboard boots? - He also "allowed his girlfriend to use... snowboard soft boots, equipment that is not suitable for a high-altitude tour in mixed terrain", say prosecutors.

[Digga]

ChocolateFrog said:

Digga said:

Definitely curious. Not least, it raises very serious questions for groups or pairs of climbers of differing abilities. How do you become experienced and competent in the first place if no one wants to risk the responsibility of taking you as a 'second'?

Which is why I'm fairly sure this will go not guilty.

If money has exchanged hands then it's more clearly defined but even then things can go wrong that wouldn't automatically be criminal.

Situations can go south very quickly at that height and temperature.

I can also understand not answering the phone if it's -20 and you're busy or starting to panic.

Don't even need to be that high up. Stuff goes sideways, people do the oddest things when tired and/or scared.

When I was about 14, four of us were up near Dale Head in a white out and one of the lads just freaked/flaked. Basically just decided to sit down and give up. TLDR me and bets mate were not too worried. We knew exactly where we were, that it was simply a matter of getting us all down into Borrowdale. Didn't help that I had to almost fireman carry the other lad down, whilst my mate had to haul his pack on top of his own.

[ozzuk]

I suspect not guilty though he'll have some tough questions to answer, it's pretty damning as 'stupidity' if you take the evidence as stated - not contacting police/emergency, phone on silent, leaving her without enough protection - why even leave if phone signal, ignoring phone and continuing to submit, poor planning and prep - but when goes poor choice become criminal negligence, hindsight is easy after all.

I guess how he answers those will be the key, it sounds like he was negligent but how much of that was down to both of them and what liability sits with him. Both interesting and tragic case.

[ChocolateFrog]

Richard-390a0 said:

ChocolateFrog said:

KAgantua said:

Shes not a climber though he is.
Its great being a climber and taking your bird on a trip but Glossknocker??

His decision to get help was right, what is wrong taking her up in the first place.

Well her mother is quoted as saying she was a keen mountaineer who enjoyed night climbing.

So is she a climber or not?

From that BBC article - "Her mother has told German media that she loved mountain hiking at night." To me hiking & climbing are two different activities.

& further would a climber, actually attempt a climb in snowboard boots? - He also "allowed his girlfriend to use... snowboard soft boots, equipment that is not suitable for a high-altitude tour in mixed terrain", say prosecutors.

People do all sorts of odd stuff. It's possible that she decided they would be warmer than her walking boots. I climbed Aconcagua in the same boots I hike up Helvellyn. Most people were in full summit double insulated boots but my toes didnt drop off. If I had frozen to death it would certainly have been mentioned along with how ill prepared I was in the few column inches it generated.

I would suggest hiking and climbing is synonymous within the bounds of reasonableness.

[JagLover]

There was a YouTube video on this and it looked very fishy.

From memory he delayed making a call once down the mountain and then was uncontactable for a bit after that and just went to bed.

Now if it were me with someone I supposed loved up a mountain I would act rather differently.

[mac96]

JagLover said:

There was a YouTube video on this and it looked very fishy.

From memory he delayed making a call once down the mountain and then was uncontactable for a bit after that and just went to bed.

Now if it were me with someone I supposed loved up a mountain I would act rather differently.

Just going to bed on his return strikes me as more damning than his behaviour under stress on the mountain.

[BikeBikeBIke]

mac96 said:

Just going to bed on his return strikes me as more damning than his behaviour under stress on the mountain.

Presumably he'd already instigated a rescue at that point.

Given that Thomas P's narrative is going to be the main version of events I'd have thought it will be very difficult to get a conviction.

[ChocolateFrog]

mac96 said:

JagLover said:

There was a YouTube video on this and it looked very fishy.

From memory he delayed making a call once down the mountain and then was uncontactable for a bit after that and just went to bed.

Now if it were me with someone I supposed loved up a mountain I would act rather differently.

Just going to bed on his return strikes me as more damning than his behaviour under stress on the mountain.

How many hours of climbing though? It's clearly very suspicious from someone well rested but not that odd if you've done 18 hours of climbing in -20 wind chill, almost certainly in calorie deficit and likely dehydrated to boot. Even Ueli Steck could be delirious at that point.

[JagLover]

This claims a long delay before making a call after making it down the mountain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLChRLSC-D0&t=...

There is also the question of why wait until down?, as there was mobile phone reception higher up.

[silentbrown]

I've just been re-reading "Cairngorm John", and there's a section there about the scope for 'foul play' and why MRT's have to collect evidence in such situations.

Wouldn't be the first time in Austria if a conviction is secured: https://www.espn.com/action/freeskiing/story/_/id/...

[Bill]

His behaviour afterwards sounds odd, makes me think he was in trouble as well. But taking a "hiker" up a technical climb in snowboard boots is not a good start. Add in winter conditions and night time and it does look pretty bad for him.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Bill said:

taking a "hiker" up a technical climb in snowboard boots is not a good start.

"Taking" is a loaded term. They went up as a couple, he was a boyfriend not a guide.

I also have an issue with "allowed his girlfriend to use... snowboard soft boots". It's 2026. We don't tell women what to wear.

What ever he did wrong, being someone's BF does not make you their leader.

[JagLover]

BikeBikeBIke said:

"Taking" is a loaded term. They went up as a couple, he was a boyfriend not a guide.

I also have an issue with "allowed his girlfriend to use... snowboard soft boots". It's 2026. We don't tell women what to wear.

What ever he did wrong, being someone's BF does not make you their leader.

That is all true enough. The concern is more what happened once they were up there.

[BikeBikeBIke]

JagLover said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

"Taking" is a loaded term. They went up as a couple, he was a boyfriend not a guide.

I also have an issue with "allowed his girlfriend to use... snowboard soft boots". It's 2026. We don't tell women what to wear.

What ever he did wrong, being someone's BF does not make you their leader.

That is all true enough. The concern is more what happened once they were up there.

Yup, no quarrel with that.