Football and Fasting
Discussion
There was a fair bit of comment over the weekend around the fact that a Leeds Utd. Vs Man City game was briefly stopped to allow some players to break their Ramadan fast, and some Leeds Fans booed this.
I would not have booed - I think Muslim Leeds fans must have been put in an uncomfortable situation not of their making. However, neither do I agree that (in an effectively secular country), religious practices should be indulged at a football game.
Professional football matches were not played on Sundays in the memory of many of us - due to Christian considerations - but we have moved on from that. So why bring in a minority practice, and why choose this particular one? Even within Islam the exact timing of the end of the daily fast differs between sects and theologists, so is there a suggestion that this incident was yet another example of virtue signalling?
I would not have booed - I think Muslim Leeds fans must have been put in an uncomfortable situation not of their making. However, neither do I agree that (in an effectively secular country), religious practices should be indulged at a football game.
Professional football matches were not played on Sundays in the memory of many of us - due to Christian considerations - but we have moved on from that. So why bring in a minority practice, and why choose this particular one? Even within Islam the exact timing of the end of the daily fast differs between sects and theologists, so is there a suggestion that this incident was yet another example of virtue signalling?
Foss62 said:
Even within Islam the exact timing of the end of the daily fast differs between sects and theologists, so is there a suggestion that this incident was yet another example of virtue signalling?
That's news to me. It might differ by a few minutes but, generally speaking, sunset is sunset.I had to google virtue signalling
the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
Is that really such a bad thing?
To answer the original question - I'm sure players have fasted in previous years without any issues. This appears to be a nice gesture from the clubs taking part. Why it would upset some people I have no idea.
Countdown said:
Foss62 said:
Even within Islam the exact timing of the end of the daily fast differs between sects and theologists, so is there a suggestion that this incident was yet another example of virtue signalling?
That's news to me. It might differ by a few minutes but, generally speaking, sunset is sunset.I had to google virtue signalling
the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
Is that really such a bad thing?
To answer the original question - I'm sure players have fasted in previous years without any issues. This appears to be a nice gesture from the clubs taking part. Why it would upset some people I have no idea.
I don't know what I think of the fasting. It's relevant to the players observing it. I managed my son's team which had three Muslim players in it. They fasted and it wasn't an issue. We respected their belief and did the best we could to support them.
The booing is by people who would no doubt have a lot to say if the boot was on the other foot.
It could also be said that the national anthem is lost at the FA Cup final when you'd struggle to find a player it means anything to. Same for laying reefs for remembrance. Relevant in your local community, but at a football match where two teams with players who might have been on the other side of the line...
The booing is by people who would no doubt have a lot to say if the boot was on the other foot.
It could also be said that the national anthem is lost at the FA Cup final when you'd struggle to find a player it means anything to. Same for laying reefs for remembrance. Relevant in your local community, but at a football match where two teams with players who might have been on the other side of the line...
Foss62 said:
However, neither do I agree that (in an effectively secular country), religious practices should be indulged at a football game.
At the risk of repeating my self - there is a difference between being effectively secular and secular. The UK is not a secular country and there are any number of allowances and special considerations given to religious people and religion more broadly (education for example).If Britain is serious about being a secular country, and I think it should be, then it should takes steps towards becoming one.
Glassman said:
Same for laying reefs for remembrance.
Not really, the act of remembrance & laying wreaths covers all conflicts & religions. I don't give a flying fig if you're white / black / christian / hindu etc etc I'll observe the two minutes silence for your ultimate sacrifice for my freedom to live as we do in this country.Type R Tom said:
I think I read somewhere that some of the boos might have been because Leeds were pushing at the time of the break, and City players went to Pep for a team meeting.
As with many things in life, there might be a bit of nuance to it
You posted this as I was posting my previous comment. As with many things in life, there might be a bit of nuance to it
Edited by Type R Tom on Tuesday 3rd March 16:54
At what point in the game was the break?
With our players (in my son's team) they were disciplined enough to wait until half time or the end of the match. They may also have quickly grabbed something from parents on the touchline without any disruption.
Sports people shouldn't really be taking anything in other than a an energy gel or water (which you use to quench your thirst). When I played rugby we were trained not to take on liquids during the match.
Countdown said:
Foss62 said:
Even within Islam the exact timing of the end of the daily fast differs between sects and theologists, so is there a suggestion that this incident was yet another example of virtue signalling?
That's news to me. It might differ by a few minutes but, generally speaking, sunset is sunset.I had to google virtue signalling
the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
Is that really such a bad thing?
To answer the original question - I'm sure players have fasted in previous years without any issues. This appears to be a nice gesture from the clubs taking part. Why it would upset some people I have no idea.
Football fans get upset about a goalkeeper bouncing the ball too many times or players attempting to take a throw from the wrong place to waste time or break the flow of the game - so it is maybe unsurprising that a seemingly unnecessary interlude annoys some.
Is it a ‘bad thing’? Well I suppose that depends on your view of religion.
Richard-390a0 said:
Not really, the act of remembrance & laying wreaths covers all conflicts & religions. I don't give a flying fig if you're white / black / christian / hindu etc etc I'll observe the two minutes silence for your ultimate sacrifice for my freedom to live as we do in this country.
It's precisely that freedom which allows individuals and clubs to decide what they want to do. Glassman said:
Type R Tom said:
I think I read somewhere that some of the boos might have been because Leeds were pushing at the time of the break, and City players went to Pep for a team meeting.
As with many things in life, there might be a bit of nuance to it
You posted this as I was posting my previous comment. As with many things in life, there might be a bit of nuance to it
Edited by Type R Tom on Tuesday 3rd March 16:54
At what point in the game was the break?
With our players (in my son's team) they were disciplined enough to wait until half time or the end of the match. They may also have quickly grabbed something from parents on the touchline without any disruption.
Sports people shouldn't really be taking anything in other than a an energy gel or water (which you use to quench your thirst). When I played rugby we were trained not to take on liquids during the match.
I think your comments above would have meant there would be no issue. If the 3 lads had run off for a quick swig while the rest stayed on the pitch, I doubt there would have been an issue. Pep giving them a lecture in a religious break isn't a great look.
Foss62 said:
Shias wait until darkness, Sunnis sunset. The point being that you could have two different stops (whereby it starts becoming a bit ridiculous), or the whole thing could happen at half time without comment.
That's Shias for you - always putting the "Fun" into "Fundamental 
Foss62 said:
Football fans get upset about a goalkeeper bouncing the ball too many times or players attempting to take a throw from the wrong place to waste time or break the flow of the game - so it is maybe unsurprising that a seemingly unnecessary interlude annoys some.
I can see where you're coming from. The way i see it there are so many breaks in a football game this probably doesn't make much difference.Glassman said:
You posted this as I was posting my previous comment.
At what point in the game was the break?
With our players (in my son's team) they were disciplined enough to wait until half time or the end of the match. They may also have quickly grabbed something from parents on the touchline without any disruption.
Sports people shouldn't really be taking anything in other than a an energy gel or water (which you use to quench your thirst). When I played rugby we were trained not to take on liquids during the match.
This was part of my point really. It is very common at matches for players to take a drink at a throw-in or other break in play, so I don’t see why a specific stop had to be made?At what point in the game was the break?
With our players (in my son's team) they were disciplined enough to wait until half time or the end of the match. They may also have quickly grabbed something from parents on the touchline without any disruption.
Sports people shouldn't really be taking anything in other than a an energy gel or water (which you use to quench your thirst). When I played rugby we were trained not to take on liquids during the match.
Type R Tom said:
13 minutes in.
I think your comments above would have meant there would be no issue. If the 3 lads had run off for a quick swig while the rest stayed on the pitch, I doubt there would have been an issue. Pep giving them a lecture in a religious break isn't a great look.
I didn't watch the match. Was there any prayer? I think your comments above would have meant there would be no issue. If the 3 lads had run off for a quick swig while the rest stayed on the pitch, I doubt there would have been an issue. Pep giving them a lecture in a religious break isn't a great look.
To my mind it had bugger all to do with 'booing Muslims' but more Pep taking a team talk which is explicitly not allowed by the FA, coupled with dirty Leeds being relatively dominant at the time.
the FA said:
Players observing Ramadan will be permitted a short pause in play to break their fast. An approximate time will be agreed when the pause will take place, and it will not be used as a team drinks break or tactical time-out.
Obviously Pep moaned about it, it's what he does.Foss62 said:
Glassman said:
You posted this as I was posting my previous comment.
At what point in the game was the break?
With our players (in my son's team) they were disciplined enough to wait until half time or the end of the match. They may also have quickly grabbed something from parents on the touchline without any disruption.
Sports people shouldn't really be taking anything in other than a an energy gel or water (which you use to quench your thirst). When I played rugby we were trained not to take on liquids during the match.
This was part of my point really. It is very common at matches for players to take a drink at a throw-in or other break in play, so I don t see why a specific stop had to be made?At what point in the game was the break?
With our players (in my son's team) they were disciplined enough to wait until half time or the end of the match. They may also have quickly grabbed something from parents on the touchline without any disruption.
Sports people shouldn't really be taking anything in other than a an energy gel or water (which you use to quench your thirst). When I played rugby we were trained not to take on liquids during the match.
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