Motability - black box insurance?

[Ian Geary]

Spotted this article over breakfast

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c203n6qx3ego

My summary
- to protect access, motility needs to reduce its scheme costs
- insurance costs for under 30 yo drivers can be reduced by making a black box compulsory for members under 30s
- repeated red flags will see the policy holder withdrawn from the scheme (and the obvious mobility impact on the disabled person)


Disabled drivers not happy.

Now, initially i thought, "well that's an easy problem to solve- just drive properly", and that disabled drivers were upset they wouldn't be allowed to drive badly. It's like arguing against speed cameras because you got caught speeding.


But reading further, it seems concerns arise from able bodied drivers of these motability cars (family, carers) ragging it, and leaving the policy holder high and dry if the car is removed from them.

Finally I guess there's a broader discrimination issue of a disabled person getting no choice over policy type, versus able bodied drivers who can (albeit constrained by the insurance market realities.)

So all in all, to me it seems an odd hill to die on, with an argument that motability cars should continue to be allowed to drive badly without censure. Whereas my wife thought it seems unfair to force something onto motability scheme members (so basically indirect discrimination) where they don't have any alternative to turn to.

I was wondering where other people would sit on this issue?

[davek_964]

When my stepson had black box type insurance for his mums car (it was a small sensor stuck on the windscreen), it linked to his phone. If he was a passenger in the car he disabled Bluetooth.

Surely they'd use the same kind of system so that family members didn't register when they're driving?

[Rusty Old-Banger]

If the government are paying for the insurance, then their ball, their rules.

If the Motability user sorts their own insurance out, then the government can FRO.

[Chrisgr31]

The argument I heard advanced on the news earlier was that if you an 18 yr old disabled driver then you’d have a black box for 18 years when a non-disabled driver wouldn’t. That potentially sounds like discrimination but I guess the counter argument is the disabled person can get a car outside the motability scheme.

If an issue is non-disabled drivers driving the car badly surely that’s upto the disabled person to stop them from driving it?

[itcaptainslow]

Rusty Old-Banger said:

If the government are paying for the insurance, then their ball, their rules.

If the Motability user sorts their own insurance out, then the government can FRO.

Unless the scheme has changed, you can’t “sort out your own insurance”, if you’ve a scheme car, it’s on the scheme insurance (provided by Royal Sun Alliance, unless again that’s changed).

[Trevor555]

I'll guess it'd also route out miss use?

Another family member using the car for commuting?

Even for business?

[Magikarp]

itcaptainslow said:

Unless the scheme has changed, you can t sort out your own insurance , if you ve a scheme car, it s on the scheme insurance (provided by Royal Sun Alliance, unless again that s changed).

Direct Line now, with the commensurate complications you might expect. The article is a curious one because it implies a huge personal imposition. A compulsory black box really isn't one. There are anough chancers operating within and around the scheme, it is only right Motability try and limit the abuse of its system, which is a good one.

I'll admit I'm not feeling too sympathetic because there are a lot of what-ifs being cited.

Maybe I'm just grumpy this morning.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Trevor555 said:

I'll guess it'd also route out miss use?

Another family member using the car for commuting?

Even for business?

I can't imagine what you are talking about, cuz.

[LittleBobbyTables]

Trevor555 said:

I'll guess it'd also route out miss use?

Another family member using the car for commuting?

Even for business?

We have noticed the car making numerous short trips in an evening with Chan’s Takeaway at the centre

[Mr Pointy]

Presumably this must be data-led though? Are Sun Alliance seeing more claims from cars allocated to under 30 y.o. Motability drivers than non-Motability drivers in the same age range? If so, it would seems a reasonable thing to implement.

[Richard-390a0]

As with most of these things, if you're not doing anything wrong you've nothing to worry about!

[alangla]

Richard-390a0 said:

As with most of these things, if you're not doing anything wrong you've nothing to worry about!

Yeah, but the two issues raised from the trial were less finessed driving from hand controls setting off a warning and the disabled person’s PA perhaps not being a particularly smooth driver. Neither of these are the Motability recipients fault.

[Sway]

itcaptainslow said:

Rusty Old-Banger said:

If the government are paying for the insurance, then their ball, their rules.

If the Motability user sorts their own insurance out, then the government can FRO.

Unless the scheme has changed, you can t sort out your own insurance , if you ve a scheme car, it s on the scheme insurance (provided by Royal Sun Alliance, unless again that s changed).

The government aren't paying for anything. In the same way the government aren't paying Tesco because benefits claimants shop there.

Unfortunately, due to some utter bullst wrapped in ignorance, the government have knee jerked some stupid changes that massively increase Motability's costs. This is despite Motability choosing to spend significant sums in supporting the government's targets for EV adoption - and making losses they covered themselves.

Now, Motability need to reduce the service offering significantly to attempt to mitigate the impact to customers financially - and crucially to try to protect their charitable endeavours.

Part of that, is going with a cheaper insurance provider, and that provider has only offered the fleet deal they have with the condition under 30s have a black box fitted.

The biggest cohort impacted are going to be the mums who are driving around in a Motability car due to their kid...

[untakenname]

Don't see the issue tbh as long as the scoring isn't too draconian, AFAIK disabled people are free to buy cars outside of the scheme if they don't want to be tracked.

[Magikarp]

Mr Pointy said:

Presumably this must be data-led though? Are Sun Alliance seeing more claims from cars allocated to under 30 y.o. Motability drivers than non-Motability drivers in the same age range? If so, it would seems a reasonable thing to implement.

Direct Line, not RSA.

[irc]

"He said, of the 300 drivers removed from the scheme, one had driven 117mph in a 30mph zone."

An extreme exampe but I am sure more will be flagged. Like a motobility car spending almost all it's time and miles at the nominated driver's house but going to the clients home once a week for a shopping trip.

[CraigyMc]

irc said:

"He said, of the 300 drivers removed from the scheme, one had driven 117mph in a 30mph zone."

An extreme exampe but I am sure more will be flagged. Like a motobility car spending almost all it's time and miles at the nominated driver's house but going to the clients home once a week for a shopping trip.

I'd like to see the GPS data on that car to check if it's errant data or not. Unless there's a closed loop of confirmation they could easily be reporting the result of an error.

[hondajack85]

you could solve all these problems by bringing back that little blue car.

[scenario8]

117 in a 30 zone? Goodness. I’m trying to think of any 30 zone I can recall where that would even be possible. (Shy of a car with crazy performance. Which I might not anticipate being available via the Motability scheme).

Am I naive? Are these 30 zones where a theoretical 117mph might be achieved more numerous than I imagine?

I do spend the vast majority of my time within the M25. I’ll be in Chichester tomorrow, Sway. Can’t recall any 30s around there I could get up to three figures.

[milkround]

If someone borrows my car and drives like a total dick I’d want to know about it. I don’t have a black box but if I did and they were doing 50 in a 30 they wouldn’t be driving it again.

Surely the disabled person can use this date to stop idiots driving their car.

Given it’s a car for a disabled person to get around I think they should all have black boxes. If the cars are used to deliver takeaway food they should be taken away. And I know someone who did that with his disabled son’s motability car.