'Shocking' rise in school suspensions
Discussion
I found this article and feel slightly baffled that it misses a pivotal cause BBC News
We live in a world where polarised views dominate the news, where leading politicians across the world (either through election or just inexplicable news coverage) point fingers at varying groups of people ("illegals", migrants, disabled people, elderly people etc etc) is it any wonder that we see rhetoric and behaviour repeated by children at school? Or is the call coming from inside the room and the news institution couldn't possibly be part of the problem?
I was bullied remorselesly at school, but I'd like to think that society has moved on, but a brief look at the news will say otherwise. Am I missing the point in thinking that this isn't a pure "educate the children" topic, but more an "educate the ruling class" topic?
We live in a world where polarised views dominate the news, where leading politicians across the world (either through election or just inexplicable news coverage) point fingers at varying groups of people ("illegals", migrants, disabled people, elderly people etc etc) is it any wonder that we see rhetoric and behaviour repeated by children at school? Or is the call coming from inside the room and the news institution couldn't possibly be part of the problem?
I was bullied remorselesly at school, but I'd like to think that society has moved on, but a brief look at the news will say otherwise. Am I missing the point in thinking that this isn't a pure "educate the children" topic, but more an "educate the ruling class" topic?
Not clear from the article whether there has been any rise in verbal bullying or merely that schools are more willing to suspend someone over it.
Verbal insults have always been common and sensibilities among those in charge of schools may be somewhat different.
Verbal insults have always been common and sensibilities among those in charge of schools may be somewhat different.
Edited by JagLover on Thursday 28th May 06:47
krisdelta said:
I found this article and feel slightly baffled that it misses a pivotal cause BBC News
We live in a world where polarised views dominate the news, where leading politicians across the world (either through election or just inexplicable news coverage) point fingers at varying groups of people ("illegals", migrants, disabled people, elderly people etc etc) is it any wonder that we see rhetoric and behaviour repeated by children at school? Or is the call coming from inside the room and the news institution couldn't possibly be part of the problem?
I was bullied remorselesly at school, but I'd like to think that society has moved on, but a brief look at the news will say otherwise. Am I missing the point in thinking that this isn't a pure "educate the children" topic, but more an "educate the ruling class" topic?
How many school kids do you know who are absorbed in BBC News? Or engaged in politics? And of those, how many get suspended?We live in a world where polarised views dominate the news, where leading politicians across the world (either through election or just inexplicable news coverage) point fingers at varying groups of people ("illegals", migrants, disabled people, elderly people etc etc) is it any wonder that we see rhetoric and behaviour repeated by children at school? Or is the call coming from inside the room and the news institution couldn't possibly be part of the problem?
I was bullied remorselesly at school, but I'd like to think that society has moved on, but a brief look at the news will say otherwise. Am I missing the point in thinking that this isn't a pure "educate the children" topic, but more an "educate the ruling class" topic?
The media is one part of the issue (traditional and social - article on this morning about "married at first sight"...who could ever have predicted that sort of s
t would lead to issues!). Govt rules and direction are another (education, justice, nothing's your fault unless you're in the current bogeyman group in which case it's *all* yours)...But parental responsibility is the massive elephant in the room. It's never mentioned by politicians or the media, and needs significantly more focus. Kids should be getting the majority of their direction and guidance from their parents.
Murph7355 said:
But parental responsibility is the massive elephant in the room. It's never mentioned by politicians or the media, and needs significantly more focus. Kids should be getting the majority of their direction and guidance from their parents.
Indeed. And the problem is exacerbated when the kids live in a single parent home.Mr Penguin said:
It has got much worse since Covid when the government made it an offence to socialise children and parents increasingly think it is the teacher's job to raise their children.
I think that’s been the case for some time, way before Covid. My sister in law has just retired from teaching after 40+ yrs.She said it’s just steadily got worse, kids (5-7yrs) and parents. Unruly behaviour, not toilet trained and still wearing nappies. One kid said he’d stab them (the teacher), when the parents were told they laughed and said he’d says that to us as well.
Kwackersaki said:
Mr Penguin said:
It has got much worse since Covid when the government made it an offence to socialise children and parents increasingly think it is the teacher's job to raise their children.
I think that s been the case for some time, way before Covid. My sister in law has just retired from teaching after 40+ yrs.She said it s just steadily got worse, kids (5-7yrs) and parents. Unruly behaviour, not toilet trained and still wearing nappies. One kid said he d stab them (the teacher), when the parents were told they laughed and said he d says that to us as well.
There's kids that disrupt the classes and it's clear the parents are not doing the parenting.... which then spreads like wildfire through the school
if he can get away with it, then I'll misbehave to get attention etc...
ikarl said:
Agree with all of the above - my wife's a teacher and regularly talks about the sudden decline since covid.
There's kids that disrupt the classes and it's clear the parents are not doing the parenting.... which then spreads like wildfire through the school
if he can get away with it, then I'll misbehave to get attention etc...
I’ve said for a while that COVID let people simmer in the juice of their weirdness and filters that they may have only just had a tenuous grasp on, vanished altogether. People are ruder and more bigoted than they have been for a long time. There's kids that disrupt the classes and it's clear the parents are not doing the parenting.... which then spreads like wildfire through the school
if he can get away with it, then I'll misbehave to get attention etc...
Murph7355 said:
How many school kids do you know who are absorbed in BBC News? Or engaged in politics? And of those, how many get suspended?
The media is one part of the issue (traditional and social - article on this morning about "married at first sight"...who could ever have predicted that sort of st would lead to issues!). Govt rules and direction are another (education, justice, nothing's your fault unless you're in the current bogeyman group in which case it's *all* yours)...
But parental responsibility is the massive elephant in the room. It's never mentioned by politicians or the media, and needs significantly more focus. Kids should be getting the majority of their direction and guidance from their parents.
Exactly.The media is one part of the issue (traditional and social - article on this morning about "married at first sight"...who could ever have predicted that sort of s
t would lead to issues!). Govt rules and direction are another (education, justice, nothing's your fault unless you're in the current bogeyman group in which case it's *all* yours)...But parental responsibility is the massive elephant in the room. It's never mentioned by politicians or the media, and needs significantly more focus. Kids should be getting the majority of their direction and guidance from their parents.
Look at some of the stuff on here.
Now ask yourself what their kids get dripped in their ears.
). Magikarp said:
I ve said for a while that COVID let people simmer in the juice of their weirdness and filters that they may have only just had a tenuous grasp on, vanished altogether. People are ruder and more bigoted than they have been for a long time.
Covid possibly exacerbated the situation but there has been a steady decline for decades.A bigger problem, IMO, is that there is no sanction for kids being little w
kers. And as with much of our society they are over-versed in their "rights" and under-versed in their responsibilities. Which, of course, then bleeds through into adulthood, the adults become "parents" the kids get more reinforcement they are always right and the teachers (/the man) are wrong and we end up in the st situation we are now in. This has not magically happened since 2020. It has been many years of soft-soaping in the making.
It will get much worse before it gets better. If it ever gets better now.
Countdown said:
Murph7355 said:
But parental responsibility is the massive elephant in the room. It's never mentioned by politicians or the media, and needs significantly more focus. Kids should be getting the majority of their direction and guidance from their parents.
Indeed. And the problem is exacerbated when the kids live in a single parent home.ked up by a stty home life that by mid teens some are beyond saving. And it's gotten worse since Covid, when for a period parents were forced to parent and way too many were found out to be woeful at it. And at the other end of the spectrum, the helicopter parents whose only love is showering kids with gifts and throwing money at them. She actually finds them worse because of their entitled attitude and arrogance. That somehow wealth and money buys them the right to look down and demand and have no respect for professionals trying to do their best.
Sadly, all of this isn't some inner city sinkhole, it's in an area thats rural and on the face of it relatively well off and nice.
O/H frustration is when it comes to challenge, the authorities and agencies will almost always back the parent and can't be seen to criticise, and no matter how bad the kid, the parent will rarely take any responsibility. It'll be the school's fault, or some undiagnosed mental health issue.
Fair to say she's sick of it and can't wait to retire. Real shame as for the greater part of her career she's totally loved the profession.
Edited by bigglesA110 on Thursday 28th May 08:43
Murph7355 said:
Covid possibly exacerbated the situation but there has been a steady decline for decades.
A bigger problem, IMO, is that there is no sanction for kids being little wkers. And as with much of our society they are over-versed in their "rights" and under-versed in their responsibilities. Which, of course, then bleeds through into adulthood, the adults become "parents" the kids get more reinforcement they are always right and the teachers (/the man) are wrong and we end up in the st situation we are now in.
This has not magically happened since 2020. It has been many years of soft-soaping in the making.
It will get much worse before it gets better. If it ever gets better now.
Sadly this is true.A bigger problem, IMO, is that there is no sanction for kids being little w
kers. And as with much of our society they are over-versed in their "rights" and under-versed in their responsibilities. Which, of course, then bleeds through into adulthood, the adults become "parents" the kids get more reinforcement they are always right and the teachers (/the man) are wrong and we end up in the st situation we are now in. This has not magically happened since 2020. It has been many years of soft-soaping in the making.
It will get much worse before it gets better. If it ever gets better now.
UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
sparta6 said:
Sadly this is true.
UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Yeah let’s go back to beating kids.UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Fwiw blaming this increase on one thing (i.e covid) is way too simplistic.
One aspect is it’s becoming normalised to be a bigot again and the parents that are bigots will likely raise little bigots.
Social media, regular media, politicians, ‘influencers’ etc etc are all in there as part of the problem aswell.
chrispmartha said:
sparta6 said:
Sadly this is true.
UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Yeah let s go back to beating kids.UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Fwiw blaming this increase on one thing (i.e covid) is way too simplistic.
One aspect is it s becoming normalised to be a bigot again and the parents that are bigots will likely raise little bigots.
Social media, regular media, politicians, influencers etc etc are all in there as part of the problem aswell.
Countdown said:
I do wonder how the anti-vaxxer I m right and nobody can make me do what I don t wanna do attitudes have affected kids? If they see their parents behaving like dipsticks how many are going to take the same attitude to school?
It’s the point I made earlier. Look at some people on here. Now imagine what they’re going to be saying to and teaching their kids. Countdown said:
chrispmartha said:
sparta6 said:
Sadly this is true.
UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Yeah let s go back to beating kids.UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Fwiw blaming this increase on one thing (i.e covid) is way too simplistic.
One aspect is it s becoming normalised to be a bigot again and the parents that are bigots will likely raise little bigots.
Social media, regular media, politicians, influencers etc etc are all in there as part of the problem aswell.
chrispmartha said:
sparta6 said:
Sadly this is true.
UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Yeah let s go back to beating kids.UK Gov removed a helpful deterrent to the consequences of bad behaviour.
Removing corporal punishment removed the fear.
Fear is a great motivator, look at the achievements of Man Utd under Ferguson, mostly driven by fear, and fear of failure.
In schools the cane rarely needed to be used, its omnipresent fear helped create boundaries for pupils and boosted their self-discipline and performance.
Fwiw blaming this increase on one thing (i.e covid) is way too simplistic.
One aspect is it s becoming normalised to be a bigot again and the parents that are bigots will likely raise little bigots.
Social media, regular media, politicians, influencers etc etc are all in there as part of the problem aswell.
Nobody was beating kids at our school - but the fear created good self discipline and performance.
I agree social media has also gone into the bad mix. Regulators, in this case Ofcom, needs greater resource and powers. All platforms are publishers and should adhere to the same rules as TV.
There have always been crap / lazy parents but they are now in abundance and can barely look after themselves.
My daughter works in a school. She could write a entire library of what they deal with on a daily basis.
I'm convinced it's much worse these days purely because of kids diet. They are literally over dosed on sugar from drinks and sweets and with a food intake of heavily processed junk.
And people wonder why everyone has an 'ism these days?
That and lack of discipline, with kids knowing they're untouchable.
It's that simple.
I'm convinced it's much worse these days purely because of kids diet. They are literally over dosed on sugar from drinks and sweets and with a food intake of heavily processed junk.
And people wonder why everyone has an 'ism these days?
That and lack of discipline, with kids knowing they're untouchable.
It's that simple.
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