Discussion
I think the only good news we have in terms of defence is that it looks like drone warfare is going to be a huge part of the future, and it's advancing so rapidly that the only way we can have a genuinely first class military is to have lots of the drones that were designed in the last 6 months. Perhaps the best option is to stockpile money so we can build new tech when needed. Spending billions on drones today, and then finding ourselves in a war in two years time when they're all out of date would be nuts.
We need to focus on working with and copying what Ukraine have done, including the diverse nature of the drone industry there.
We need to build planes and ships and recruit based entirely on MITE - Merit Intelligence Talent and Excellence - no DEI anywhere in sight - ASAP.
We need to focus on working with and copying what Ukraine have done, including the diverse nature of the drone industry there.
We need to build planes and ships and recruit based entirely on MITE - Merit Intelligence Talent and Excellence - no DEI anywhere in sight - ASAP.
BigMon said:
It's an utter embarrassment and all the governments from the Falklands on should hang their heads in shame.
We decimated our armed forces under the foolish decision America would always have our backs and now we're shafted and are having to start from an exceptionally poor point.
I disagree. Yes, governments of all colours under spent. However, by complete luck that was the right decision. If we had spent more money we would have more tanks, troop carriers, SPG, air defence, aircraft, etc. All of which in the world of drones would be scrap metal. Now is the time all of NATO, excluding the US, should be working with Ukraine to develop and build a modern defence force.We decimated our armed forces under the foolish decision America would always have our backs and now we're shafted and are having to start from an exceptionally poor point.
What's more Ukraine has show it does not take 20 years and numerous planning committees, to build a creditable force.
Edited by Mrr T on Wednesday 17th June 10:11
Electronicpants said:
Is it possible that two things are both true - (1) Immigration (numbers and some of the people themselves) is a massive issue which needs resolving in the interests of many things including national unity?
and
(2) Putin is using immigration to the UK to cause division in the UK?
Wills2 said:
Mrr T said:
What's more Ukraine has show it does not take 20 years and numerous planning committees, to build a creditable force.
Just a war instead...Drones are a solution but not at the expense of all else. If they were Ukraine wouldn't be requesting and using all the other kit too.
Mrr T said:
I disagree. Yes, governments of all colours under spent. However, by complete luck that was the right decision. If we had spent more money we would have more tanks, troop carriers, SPG, air defence, aircraft, etc. All of which in the world of drones would be scrap metal. Now is the time all of NATO, excluding the US, should be working with Ukraine to develop and build a modern defence force.
What's more Ukraine has show it does not take 20 years and numerous planning committees, to build a creditable force.
I very much doubt "drones" are all that are needed.What's more Ukraine has show it does not take 20 years and numerous planning committees, to build a creditable force.
Those same tanks and troop carriers and aircraft are needed if the intent is to take/take back ground.
But it does all need to be a very rounded approach...cyber, unmanned, manned. I think this was Al Cairns main beef...that the DIP was targeting the wrong things?
Wills2 said:
Mrr T said:
What's more Ukraine has show it does not take 20 years and numerous planning committees, to build a creditable force.
Just a war instead...War is the ultimate driver of invention and innovation
Fred Smith said:
I think the only good news we have in terms of defence is that it looks like drone warfare is going to be a huge part of the future, and it's advancing so rapidly that the only way we can have a genuinely first class military is to have lots of the drones that were designed in the last 6 months. Perhaps the best option is to stockpile money so we can build new tech when needed. Spending billions on drones today, and then finding ourselves in a war in two years time when they're all out of date would be nuts.
We need to focus on working with and copying what Ukraine have done, including the diverse nature of the drone industry there.
But Ukraine has been in a war for 4 years, they have to think fast and on their feet, and a lot of the stuff they'll do or try won't work, but, its try this, try that.....see what works and what doesn't, plus they can try it live on a battlefield. We need to focus on working with and copying what Ukraine have done, including the diverse nature of the drone industry there.
Russia is also on a war economy and is slowly learning an adapting as well.
UK and USA learnt the same thing WW2 after it started, but not leading up to it in peacetime, although unlike our present politicians they could see what was coming and started to spend in the couple of years before it kicked off.
Peace time military and Govt's and industry can never adopt to the sort of rapid development that actually fighting a war creates.
Big issue with UK defence right now is that there were lots of promises of extra money 'soon', at the same time as promising/donating a lot of kit, and now it turns out the money isn't there now or in the future.
And having been caught in the lie the response is basically 'so what?' and doing nothing about it.
Plenty of money appears apparently from thin air for some things but this one gets the floor sweepings. Guess it reflects the politics of those involved, they either don't understand or they're actively hostile to defence.
And having been caught in the lie the response is basically 'so what?' and doing nothing about it.
Plenty of money appears apparently from thin air for some things but this one gets the floor sweepings. Guess it reflects the politics of those involved, they either don't understand or they're actively hostile to defence.
The thing is, which items will you cut in order to boost defense spending. Defense is a bit like house insurance. You don't really need it day to day and it's a bit pointless. Nobody in your house would notice if you stopped paying for it...All good - right up until you need it!
We need defense now probably more than we have needed it in the last 30 years or so? So you can see why it's been neglected.
The top ten functional areas of UK government spending are (from Copilot):
1. Social Protection (£340B £380B+): Includes state pensions, Universal Credit, disability/sickness benefits, and housing support.
2. Health (£225B £277B): NHS hospital trusts, GP surgeries, mental health services, and social care.
3. General Public Services (£150B £175B): Primarily consists of net debt interest payments and central government administrative costs.
4. Education (£115B £146B): Funding for primary/secondary schools, higher education, and apprenticeships.
5. Economic Affairs (£95B £130B): Subsidies for business, science/innovation, agriculture, and transport infrastructure.
6. Defence (£58B £60B): Military defence, armed forces operations, and Single Intelligence Account.
7. Public Order and Safety (£46B £48B): Police forces, the prison system, and the court and justice systems.
8. Housing and Community Amenities (£18B £20B): Subsidies for housing developments, community projects, and local amenities.
9. Recreation, Culture, and Religion (£15B): Funding for arts, museums, heritage sites, sports, and broadcasting.
10. Environmental Protection (£15B): Waste management, pollution reduction, and environmental/climate protection.
We need defense now probably more than we have needed it in the last 30 years or so? So you can see why it's been neglected.
The top ten functional areas of UK government spending are (from Copilot):
1. Social Protection (£340B £380B+): Includes state pensions, Universal Credit, disability/sickness benefits, and housing support.
2. Health (£225B £277B): NHS hospital trusts, GP surgeries, mental health services, and social care.
3. General Public Services (£150B £175B): Primarily consists of net debt interest payments and central government administrative costs.
4. Education (£115B £146B): Funding for primary/secondary schools, higher education, and apprenticeships.
5. Economic Affairs (£95B £130B): Subsidies for business, science/innovation, agriculture, and transport infrastructure.
6. Defence (£58B £60B): Military defence, armed forces operations, and Single Intelligence Account.
7. Public Order and Safety (£46B £48B): Police forces, the prison system, and the court and justice systems.
8. Housing and Community Amenities (£18B £20B): Subsidies for housing developments, community projects, and local amenities.
9. Recreation, Culture, and Religion (£15B): Funding for arts, museums, heritage sites, sports, and broadcasting.
10. Environmental Protection (£15B): Waste management, pollution reduction, and environmental/climate protection.
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