Nottingham Hospital Enquiry - Racism towards mothers?
Discussion
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/22/no...
I’m making no comment on the medical stuff as I know nothing about it, but the headline focusing on racism in The Guardian struck me as a bit odd.
Mrs Foss has just had a couple of stays in our local hospital and I had a recent trip to A&E. Apart from being completely satisfied with the excellent treatment we received, it was noticeable that hospital staff - from those who serve the meals to senior consultants - are extremely racially (and culturally) diverse. A ‘White British’ person (to use the Government terminology) would be unlikely to last for very long in that environment, if they had any racist tendencies whatsoever.
Maybe the forthcoming report will cast some light on this ‘racism’ (The Guardian doesn’t), but I am wondering if it is more a case of certain races having specific requirements (medical and/or cultural) that other races (not necessarily even ‘White British’) are not picking up or realising the significance of?
I’m making no comment on the medical stuff as I know nothing about it, but the headline focusing on racism in The Guardian struck me as a bit odd.
Mrs Foss has just had a couple of stays in our local hospital and I had a recent trip to A&E. Apart from being completely satisfied with the excellent treatment we received, it was noticeable that hospital staff - from those who serve the meals to senior consultants - are extremely racially (and culturally) diverse. A ‘White British’ person (to use the Government terminology) would be unlikely to last for very long in that environment, if they had any racist tendencies whatsoever.
Maybe the forthcoming report will cast some light on this ‘racism’ (The Guardian doesn’t), but I am wondering if it is more a case of certain races having specific requirements (medical and/or cultural) that other races (not necessarily even ‘White British’) are not picking up or realising the significance of?
butchstewie said:
Stuff like this presumably.
Nottingham: Maternity inquiry hears of racism between hospital staff
Nottingham: New mums report racism in hospitals, says maternity lead
"the hospitals' "safe sleeping" guidance for new mothers is only provided in English".Nottingham: Maternity inquiry hears of racism between hospital staff
Nottingham: New mums report racism in hospitals, says maternity lead
Is that really racist? If it is, how many languages would it have to be in to be considered non-racist? Surely, if you don't speak the language of the country you are giving birth in, it is up to you to use Google Translate, or have a friend or family member who can read it to you.
The article said:
The trust also plans to increase diversity within its maternity workforce.
Excellent. So the trust with issues of racism are going to select staff on the basis of race. That's one way of addressing it I guess.How about they just sack the racists and employ the most competent and highly skilled people for the job.
Foss62 said:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/22/no...
I m making no comment on the medical stuff as I know nothing about it, but the headline focusing on racism in The Guardian struck me as a bit odd.
Mrs Foss has just had a couple of stays in our local hospital and I had a recent trip to A&E. Apart from being completely satisfied with the excellent treatment we received, it was noticeable that hospital staff - from those who serve the meals to senior consultants - are extremely racially (and culturally) diverse. A White British person (to use the Government terminology) would be unlikely to last for very long in that environment, if they had any racist tendencies whatsoever.
Maybe the forthcoming report will cast some light on this racism (The Guardian doesn t), but I am wondering if it is more a case of certain races having specific requirements (medical and/or cultural) that other races (not necessarily even White British ) are not picking up or realising the significance of?
I dont think its just about white people being racist. If some of the foreign staff are bowing and scraping to every white patient ,they could have I m making no comment on the medical stuff as I know nothing about it, but the headline focusing on racism in The Guardian struck me as a bit odd.
Mrs Foss has just had a couple of stays in our local hospital and I had a recent trip to A&E. Apart from being completely satisfied with the excellent treatment we received, it was noticeable that hospital staff - from those who serve the meals to senior consultants - are extremely racially (and culturally) diverse. A White British person (to use the Government terminology) would be unlikely to last for very long in that environment, if they had any racist tendencies whatsoever.
Maybe the forthcoming report will cast some light on this racism (The Guardian doesn t), but I am wondering if it is more a case of certain races having specific requirements (medical and/or cultural) that other races (not necessarily even White British ) are not picking up or realising the significance of?
a subconcious need to get back at someone else.
boyse7en said:
"the hospitals' "safe sleeping" guidance for new mothers is only provided in English".
Is that really racist? If it is, how many languages would it have to be in to be considered non-racist? Surely, if you don't speak the language of the country you are giving birth in, it is up to you to use Google Translate, or have a friend or family member who can read it to you.
This has been a pet hate of mine for decades.Is that really racist? If it is, how many languages would it have to be in to be considered non-racist? Surely, if you don't speak the language of the country you are giving birth in, it is up to you to use Google Translate, or have a friend or family member who can read it to you.
It really isn't needed and (like a lot of other well-intentioned ideas) are thought up by DEI staff who think that's what their job is.
When I used to work for the Home Office it was suggested that all public facing documents should be translated into 43 languages to avoid any discrimination. hardly anybody read the English versions let alone Swahili. the other thing which a lot of people don't realise is that the people who don't read english are unlikely to be able to read "their own language" either.
NHS spends £130k a day on translations for non-English speaking patients
Cost has reached £64m, more than double the sum spent during pandemic
NHS spends £130,000 a day on translations for non-English speaking patients https://share.google/FDqPvqPSNhA6u08w2
How many extra nurses would that pay for?
Cost has reached £64m, more than double the sum spent during pandemic
NHS spends £130,000 a day on translations for non-English speaking patients https://share.google/FDqPvqPSNhA6u08w2
How many extra nurses would that pay for?
Edited by Patio on Monday 22 June 20:41
boyse7en said:
"the hospitals' "safe sleeping" guidance for new mothers is only provided in English".
Is that really racist? If it is, how many languages would it have to be in to be considered non-racist? Surely, if you don't speak the language of the country you are giving birth in, it is up to you to use Google Translate, or have a friend or family member who can read it to you.
This drives me mad, i saw a sign the other day, cant remember what it was for, and it had about half a dozen translations under it, madness.Is that really racist? If it is, how many languages would it have to be in to be considered non-racist? Surely, if you don't speak the language of the country you are giving birth in, it is up to you to use Google Translate, or have a friend or family member who can read it to you.
I dont go to a country where i dont speak the language and expect a translation done for me, i do it myself.
As for paying interpreters, just no, if you need one you pay.
And if that view makes me racist then so be it.
Patio said:
NHS spends £130k a day on translations for non-English speaking patients
Cost has reached £64m, more than double the sum spent during pandemic
NHS spends £130,000 a day on translations for non-English speaking patients https://share.google/FDqPvqPSNhA6u08w2
How many extra nurses would that pay for?
Imagine having a patient with limited English, or a sign language user (that's part of the bill too) who needs the risks and benefits of a complex procedure explaining. If something goes wrong, one of the first questions will be around informed consent. This needs to be done by a properly qualified translator. Not one of their children or a relative whose grasp of English (or sign language) may not be up to the task. No informed consent and there can be a multi-million pound liability payout. Or it could be something really simple as how to take tablets - treatment failure can be expensive.Cost has reached £64m, more than double the sum spent during pandemic
NHS spends £130,000 a day on translations for non-English speaking patients https://share.google/FDqPvqPSNhA6u08w2
How many extra nurses would that pay for?
Edited by Patio on Monday 22 June 20:41
It is expensive, but the alternative may be many orders of magnitude higher.
SD.
butchstewie said:
Stuff like this presumably.
Nottingham: Maternity inquiry hears of racism between hospital staff
Nottingham: New mums report racism in hospitals, says maternity lead
It’s not particularly convincing is it? Nottingham: Maternity inquiry hears of racism between hospital staff
Nottingham: New mums report racism in hospitals, says maternity lead
Someone was given something written in English (I’m not convinced that if I unfortunately ended up in a French hospital, I would not be given French documents?), someone else might have been looked at in a funny way and someone else objected to having a male interpreter (??).
Furthermore, referring back to my OP, I would imagine that hospitals in Nottingham are extremely multi-racial and multi-cultural, as is the case everywhere else. Harmless misunderstandings between staff and patients and indeed between staff must be rife. You could very easily have a scenario including a female Muslim Indian consultant, a male Chinese anaesthetist, a gay male British Midwife and a devout Christian patient with origins in the Caribbean.
Looking for (even focusing on) racism in a situation where there appears to have been disastrous medical failures, seems to almost be trying to obscure the real issues - ‘they were RACISTS, so that explains everything’.
shed driver said:
Imagine having a patient with limited English, or a sign language user (that's part of the bill too) who needs the risks and benefits of a complex procedure explaining. If something goes wrong, one of the first questions will be around informed consent. This needs to be done by a properly qualified translator. Not one of their children or a relative whose grasp of English (or sign language) may not be up to the task. No informed consent and there can be a multi-million pound liability payout. Or it could be something really simple as how to take tablets - treatment failure can be expensive.
It is expensive, but the alternative may be many orders of magnitude higher.
SD.
If you are being treated for free in an English speaking service provider there should be a disclaimer that it's YOUR responsibility to ensure you are happy to give informed consent to the procedureIt is expensive, but the alternative may be many orders of magnitude higher.
SD.
Provide your own translation service. Who's to say they fully understood the NHS translation
No signature no procedure
shed driver said:
Imagine having a patient with limited English, or a sign language user (that's part of the bill too) who needs the risks and benefits of a complex procedure explaining. If something goes wrong, one of the first questions will be around informed consent. This needs to be done by a properly qualified translator. Not one of their children or a relative whose grasp of English (or sign language) may not be up to the task. No informed consent and there can be a multi-million pound liability payout. Or it could be something really simple as how to take tablets - treatment failure can be expensive.
It is expensive, but the alternative may be many orders of magnitude higher.
SD.
This sounded good when I first read it, but it doesn’t really bear further analysis. As anyone with elderly relatives will know the degree to which consent was ‘informed’ can vary greatly irrespective of language. It is expensive, but the alternative may be many orders of magnitude higher.
SD.
In addition, covering all languages is completely impossible (there are over 100 languages used in India alone), and as another poster points out, many patients may not be able to read and write in ‘their’ language anyway.
There is one more point here - virtually every adult in Britain now carries a smartphone with substantial translation capabilities.
Foss62 said:
It s not particularly convincing is it?
Someone was given something written in English (I m not convinced that if I unfortunately ended up in a French hospital, I would not be given French documents?), someone else might have been looked at in a funny way and someone else objected to having a male interpreter (??).
Furthermore, referring back to my OP, I would imagine that hospitals in Nottingham are extremely multi-racial and multi-cultural, as is the case everywhere else. Harmless misunderstandings between staff and patients and indeed between staff must be rife. You could very easily have a scenario including a female Muslim Indian consultant, a male Chinese anaesthetist, a gay male British Midwife and a devout Christian patient with origins in the Caribbean.
Looking for (even focusing on) racism in a situation where there appears to have been disastrous medical failures, seems to almost be trying to obscure the real issues - they were RACISTS, so that explains everything .
Not sure but I assume there's a bit more to it in the full report.Someone was given something written in English (I m not convinced that if I unfortunately ended up in a French hospital, I would not be given French documents?), someone else might have been looked at in a funny way and someone else objected to having a male interpreter (??).
Furthermore, referring back to my OP, I would imagine that hospitals in Nottingham are extremely multi-racial and multi-cultural, as is the case everywhere else. Harmless misunderstandings between staff and patients and indeed between staff must be rife. You could very easily have a scenario including a female Muslim Indian consultant, a male Chinese anaesthetist, a gay male British Midwife and a devout Christian patient with origins in the Caribbean.
Looking for (even focusing on) racism in a situation where there appears to have been disastrous medical failures, seems to almost be trying to obscure the real issues - they were RACISTS, so that explains everything .
Odd how this thread seems to be focusing on translation services when those articles highlight things like mocking of accents and suggest other behaviours.
Guess the devil will be in the detail when something is announced/published.
butchstewie said:
Not sure but I assume there's a bit more to it in the full report.
Odd how this thread seems to be focusing on translation services when those articles highlight things like mocking of accents and suggest other behaviours.
Guess the devil will be in the detail when something is announced/published.
I would think that the mocking of accents etc. seems extremely unlikely to anyone who has recently visited an NHS (or private) hospital, to the point that most people would discount it as a realistic possibility. This was what provoked my original comment. Odd how this thread seems to be focusing on translation services when those articles highlight things like mocking of accents and suggest other behaviours.
Guess the devil will be in the detail when something is announced/published.
If there was racism it would have to take a very different form from ‘White British’ disparaging everyone else. Maybe a reference to staff identifying with the ‘Palestinian Cause’?
boyse7en said:
"the hospitals' "safe sleeping" guidance for new mothers is only provided in English".
Is that really racist?
We have to face the fact that UK as "English" has essentially ceased to exist. Wander around anywhere in London and if you hear much English it will be purely coincidental. Huge amounts of French and quite a bit of Russian in West London before you get to the Middle East, India, Africa, China, Poland and all the rest. Even put the TV on and you'll find the Scots and Irish greatly over-represented among the accents.Is that really racist?
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