E-scooters and kids surely this needs sorting now?
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2rdggr304o
Nearly 500 under-16s have been treated at just three hospitals for e-scooter injuries, with some of the kids as young as nine. Hardly any were wearing helmets, and some of these scooters can apparently do close to 30mph.
The bizarre thing is that privately owned e-scooters are already illegal to use on public roads and pavements, yet they’re everywhere and kids seem to be riding them with very little enforcement.
I’m not against e-scooters as such, but surely if they’re going to be tolerated or eventually legalised, there needs to be a minimum age, proper speed restrictions and probably compulsory helmets. At the moment it seems to sit in a strange halfway house where they’re technically illegal but routinely used anyway.
Don't get me started on e-bikes - kids overtaking cars etc no helmet
OutInTheShed said:
How different is it from our generation having pushbike accidents?
Or skateboards etc?
Probably safer than horses...
Exactly this.Or skateboards etc?
Probably safer than horses...
If bicycles were a new thing today we would see precisely the same thing. Same kinds of speeds, same kind of accessibility and appeal.
I don't see why it is so difficult to change the law so that e-scooters are dealt with under the same laws as bicycles. Laws made by men can be changed by men.
There was no problem folding in electric cars with ICE cars, or electric toothbrushes in with manual ones, or electric motorbikes with ICE ones, etc. But e-scooters seem to have all the legal bods and politicians scratching their heads.
Hard to make comparisons as cycling is much more prevalent, the e scooter study is only three major hospitals - so its not national data. Very many more hospitilisations and head trauma's from children cycling (as you'd expect)
As I say its hard to find a per km travelled injury rate, nationally applied.
One factor though is e-scooters have small wheels, this makes crashes both more frequent and often more severe as the stop (from speed) is greater.
Not many 9 - 12 year olds have the spacial skills for 30mph travel. Obviously there are some.
OutInTheShed said:
How different is it from our generation having pushbike accidents?
Or skateboards etc?
Probably safer than horses...
I would suggest scooters with very small wheels like in the article picture are inherently more likely to crash. Big wheels can roll over obstacles. Small wheels can't.Or skateboards etc?
Probably safer than horses...
No different from skateboards right enough but skateboard culture as far a I remember was more into helmets than present day e-scotter riders seem to be.
Go around Europe and they're everywhere, used by all types of people to get to all types of places. Not unusual to see kids 2 up going to the park, a 40 year old woman going to the office or someone coming back from the shops with carrier bags on the handles.
They're cheap, green, take up very little space, and should be perfect urban transport. Unfortunately for the last 10 years no government has actually wanted to make any decision as to what to do with them, so we have the stupid situation whereby you can hire a Lime scooter, but can't legally buy your own. Great, if you live in London, but Hull (for example) doesn't have any Lime scooters.
If people fall off then that's hardly the government's fault. If people are riding dangerously then they should be dealt with, and there probably should be some speed limit on the ones for sale like there is with electric bikes, but otherwise legalise and regulate rather than banning something which has real benefits for people wanting to get around urban environments.
They're cheap, green, take up very little space, and should be perfect urban transport. Unfortunately for the last 10 years no government has actually wanted to make any decision as to what to do with them, so we have the stupid situation whereby you can hire a Lime scooter, but can't legally buy your own. Great, if you live in London, but Hull (for example) doesn't have any Lime scooters.
If people fall off then that's hardly the government's fault. If people are riding dangerously then they should be dealt with, and there probably should be some speed limit on the ones for sale like there is with electric bikes, but otherwise legalise and regulate rather than banning something which has real benefits for people wanting to get around urban environments.
article said:
The emergency department doctors are calling for laws to better protect children. Currently in the UK, there is no legal age restriction, speed limit or safety equipment requirement for the estimated 1.2 million people who own private e-scooters.
Privately owned they're outright illegal on public roads as it is.What laws could be introduced to cover doing something already illegal more safely?
It's like calling for laws to force drink-drivers to wear crash helmets.
RacingStripes said:
Whereas I think they are cheap, green transport and they should be legalised. Most won't be doing 30mph, especially the ones with 9 year olds on. There should be a focus on making sure kids have helmets on, at all times. And banning of safety balaclavas.
To make them legal, and propose compulsory helmets, requires laws, conditions and then enforcement.Condi said:
Go around Europe and they're everywhere, used by all types of people to get to all types of places. Not unusual to see kids 2 up going to the park, a 40 year old woman going to the office or someone coming back from the shops with carrier bags on the handles.
They're cheap, green, take up very little space, and should be perfect urban transport. Unfortunately for the last 10 years no government has actually wanted to make any decision as to what to do with them, so we have the stupid situation whereby you can hire a Lime scooter, but can't legally buy your own. Great, if you live in London, but Hull (for example) doesn't have any Lime scooters.
If people fall off then that's hardly the government's fault. If people are riding dangerously then they should be dealt with, and there probably should be some speed limit on the ones for sale like there is with electric bikes, but otherwise legalise and regulate rather than banning something which has real benefits for people wanting to get around urban environments.
I visited Milan and quite common to see suited office workers going back and forth on them ….. only headgear a pair of sunglasses They're cheap, green, take up very little space, and should be perfect urban transport. Unfortunately for the last 10 years no government has actually wanted to make any decision as to what to do with them, so we have the stupid situation whereby you can hire a Lime scooter, but can't legally buy your own. Great, if you live in London, but Hull (for example) doesn't have any Lime scooters.
If people fall off then that's hardly the government's fault. If people are riding dangerously then they should be dealt with, and there probably should be some speed limit on the ones for sale like there is with electric bikes, but otherwise legalise and regulate rather than banning something which has real benefits for people wanting to get around urban environments.
Food couriers are at epidemic levels around London. All riding electric mopeds that they try to pass off as e-bikes. The most common type have a plinth at the rear for a number plate. Riders seem to be almost entirely migrants as well.
Often humming along on cycle paths doing a steady 25-30mph, lazily touching the pedals for effect. Aside from occasional ‘initiatives’ they seem untroubled by enforcement.
I’ve noticed many wear actual crash helmets and many more a face covering.
The kids riding e-scooters and home built E bikes are unlikely to be riding them without parent/s knowledge or consent. The lazy ‘they are just being kids’ argument is propagated by those who aren’t considering the ramifications of their kid being involved in a serious accident. I saw a local kid who appeared around 10, cross a junction without looking, much less giving way at well north of 25mph. Lucky the Uber driver was on the ball else he’d have been mopped up.
The roads seem to be getting more and more lawless. Lads on motorbikes are routinely riding like loons (south London) in big groups, with no number plates. You have to feel sorry for the legal motorist who gets their car damaged as result of the lawless behaviour of others.
Often humming along on cycle paths doing a steady 25-30mph, lazily touching the pedals for effect. Aside from occasional ‘initiatives’ they seem untroubled by enforcement.
I’ve noticed many wear actual crash helmets and many more a face covering.
The kids riding e-scooters and home built E bikes are unlikely to be riding them without parent/s knowledge or consent. The lazy ‘they are just being kids’ argument is propagated by those who aren’t considering the ramifications of their kid being involved in a serious accident. I saw a local kid who appeared around 10, cross a junction without looking, much less giving way at well north of 25mph. Lucky the Uber driver was on the ball else he’d have been mopped up.
The roads seem to be getting more and more lawless. Lads on motorbikes are routinely riding like loons (south London) in big groups, with no number plates. You have to feel sorry for the legal motorist who gets their car damaged as result of the lawless behaviour of others.
Zetec-S said:
OutInTheShed said:
How different is it from our generation having pushbike accidents?
Or skateboards etc?
Probably safer than horses...
What a load of nonsense, very few kids were regularly doing 30+ mph on their pushbikes or skateboards back in the <insert decade here>Or skateboards etc?
Probably safer than horses...
30mph was indeed a pipe dream back in the day but thinking back to the jumps we'd make and perilous escapades to mimic Messers Knievel and Kidd, I'm amazed that none of us ended up in A&E (more often than we did!).
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