immigration What's the end game?

[bergclimber34]

Have asked this obliquely before. But a fascinating topic in our time.

But, with the almost worldwide illegal immigration crisis, especially what we know in Europe, and this bizarre Cueta situation.

What is the end game, why is it not being stamped out more fiercely, is there an ulterior motive above political power to allow it? Is there an agenda somewhere?

Is there anything you can legally do to stop it, it seems Poland and Hungary have drawn lines in the sand, why don't France, UK, Germany etc?

Is it as big a problem as we feel?

Or is there some huge global agenda trying to be all inclusive, when surely they know that is not really possible, is it being forced on us
.

[s1962a]

Poland may not have the uncontrolled immigration some of us have, but the last time I was there a lot of the uber eats / restaurant type staff were immigrants.


The agenda is probably somewhere in between "cheap labour" and having no way of stopping illegal migration.

[z4RRSchris]

When you hold yourself up to be a western country with loads of laws and treaties to protect people, then others will take advantage of those. We have liberal asylum, appeal, legal aid, benefits etc etc etc. So are very attractive.

I don't think there is an end game, just no political will to stop it from Labour who's voter base don't highlight it as a priority.

change the government, change of priorities.

[CMTMB]

I think it's become unfashionable to have strong borders. Everyone wants to be seen as liberal, accepting and welcoming. Unfortunately many politicians live in a fantasy world where they think everyone has good intentions and all cultures are compatible.

[bergclimber34]

Do we think it is the replacement theory, historically the current generation are not having families as much, also they dont want to do unskilled delivery, logistics work that is huge employer now.

Is it just impossible to police it in the first place without huge resource investment?

[rodericb]

It brings consumers for the economy and cheaper labour for employers.

[STe_rsv4]

Dons tin foil hat..... *cough cough* ..........."Kalergi plan"

[hondajack85]

Eventually people find their feet and learn how to fit in but it takes many years. Obviously could be speeded up if more hoops of language,dress and public behaviour were part of the pre onboarding process. Why should uk do this bit?
The native population will become more at ease like happened in the past.
Unfortunatly its never ending influx of new starters so very unlikely to ever be a happy medium.
Its like a department in work which never functions to 100% due to constant new starters.
But who needs 100% when they can do a slapdash 30% with a 20% outlay on labor.
So basically eager applicants get sent to some island first to do foppish hugh grant training course first.
USA happier as well as they love it when uk acts like a weedy powderpuff.

[Roofless Toothless]

Do you mean ‘end game’ or ‘final solution’?

[RichFN2]

I think it's basic human instinct/ survival mode to be drawn to a land of milk and honey.

The country with the highest paying jobs, best benefit system, good geographic location, reasonable immigration rules and English as the main language will be the most appealing for both economic and illegal migration.

America and the UK have always been right and the top of that list, the current Trump administration will likely see the UK as the easier option at the moment.

[bergclimber34]

Does it benefit the economy though, huge drain on governmental and local resources surely, and a lot of illegals can not work for a year, that does not benefit anyone but them I guess?

Maybe a benefit in time, but if the numbers continue to increase, I find that a tough one to say as a benefit. Unless I am missing the point.

And surely those benefits will drain away in time as they will be impossible to maintain long term?

[Wombat3]

hondajack85 said:

Eventually people find their feet and learn how to fit in but it takes many years. Obviously could be speeded up if more hoops of language,dress and public behaviour were part of the pre onboarding process. Why should uk do this bit?
The native population will become more at ease like happened in the past.
Unfortunatly its never ending influx of new starters so very unlikely to ever be a happy medium.
Its like a department in work which never functions to 100% due to constant new starters.
But who needs 100% when they can do a slapdash 30% with a 20% outlay on labor.
So basically eager applicants get sent to some island first to do foppish hugh grant training course first.
USA happier as well as they love it when uk acts like a weedy powderpuff.

That assumes that everyone that migrates wants to "fit in" and experience shows us that that is very much not the case. Parts of the UK are now tantamount to ethnic enclaves or ghettos.

The UK experience is that multiculturilisam and diversity has in fact created a significant amount of division. That has very largly happened as a reaction to the behaviour of minorities. It doesn't start with the majority IMO, its also a reaction to positive discrimination.

[rodericb]

Wombat3 said:

hondajack85 said:

Eventually people find their feet and learn how to fit in but it takes many years. Obviously could be speeded up if more hoops of language,dress and public behaviour were part of the pre onboarding process. Why should uk do this bit?
The native population will become more at ease like happened in the past.
Unfortunatly its never ending influx of new starters so very unlikely to ever be a happy medium.
Its like a department in work which never functions to 100% due to constant new starters.
But who needs 100% when they can do a slapdash 30% with a 20% outlay on labor.
So basically eager applicants get sent to some island first to do foppish hugh grant training course first.
USA happier as well as they love it when uk acts like a weedy powderpuff.

That assumes that everyone that migrates wants to "fit in" and experience shows us that that is very much not the case. Parts of the UK are now tantamount to ethnic enclaves or ghettos.

The UK experience is that multiculturilisam and diversity has in fact created a significant amount of division. That has very largly happened as a reaction to the behaviour of minorities. It doesn't start with the majority IMO, its also a reaction to positive discrimination.

Yeah, it's strange how posters on PH like to unload on poms moving to Spain or wherever, into some pommy enclave, eating pommy food, socialising with other poms. But in the reverse - oh no it's great do it more due to we needing these eager people to wipe our arses when we're old, and otherwise do the jobs which we don't want to do and so on and so forth..... It's just a bizzaro-world kink on colonialism (wheeee - cheap resources!!) sprinkled with classism. But then you find they have ambitions of their own, start getting into positions of power and doing things to their own agenda..... whoops! It's okay Doris we'll be dead by then..... zzzzzzzzzz

[RichFN2]

bergclimber34 said:

Does it benefit the economy though, huge drain on governmental and local resources surely, and a lot of illegals can not work for a year, that does not benefit anyone but them I guess?

Maybe a benefit in time, but if the numbers continue to increase, I find that a tough one to say as a benefit. Unless I am missing the point.

And surely those benefits will drain away in time as they will be impossible to maintain long term?

If we are only talking about those who claim asylum and are successful then its a tough case to argue that they benefit our economy. They are banned from working for the first 12 months of their claim so absolutely everything is funded by the state. After 12 months only around 24% will get a job and after several years this raises to 48%

Over 50% of those granted asylum will never work while they live here, that's roughly 50,000 every year if the numbers remain similar to the last 2-3 years. That's a Milton Keynes size town/city every 6 years....

Economic migration? yes the employment % is very high and I do believe they benefit our economy.

[ChevronB19]

bergclimber34 said:

Have asked this obliquely before. But a fascinating topic in our time.

But, with the almost worldwide illegal immigration crisis, especially what we know in Europe, and this bizarre Cueta situation.

What is the end game, why is it not being stamped out more fiercely, is there an ulterior motive above political power to allow it? Is there an agenda somewhere?

Is there anything you can legally do to stop it, it seems Poland and Hungary have drawn lines in the sand, why don't France, UK, Germany etc?

Is it as big a problem as we feel?

Or is there some huge global agenda trying to be all inclusive, when surely they know that is not really possible, is it being forced on us
.

You’re asking us, so what is *your* opinion?

[bmwmike]

Roofless Toothless said:

Do you mean end game or final solution ?

Some might say the timing of covid as the lead-in to the subsequent migrations were a test bed for the control policies.

/s (-/+)

[mike9009]

There are several interesting developments and demographic shifts which we need to fundamentally plan for as a nation.

1. AI and robotics. What will this mean for employment in years to come? Will human need to work and if not what will we do. What will be the purpose?
2. Already alluded to, but the sustainability of 'western' birth rates is already too low. Over the course of the next few decades the global population is likely to start declining as more nations/ people become more affluent like the western cultures. This needs a fundamental change to governance and the capitalist society, which has pretty much been predicated on population growth. How can Apple sell more iphones if there are less consumers??
3. The aging demographic and care needs - what is the plan?

So, immigration (the end game) needs to be carefully balanced with what the UK needs for the next few decades and not be reactionary to the current political climate. For the UK, we should be considering the factors mentioned above to define our immigration policy. At the moment, it feels like there is no longer term plan.....

[Randy Winkman]

RichFN2 said:

I think it's basic human instinct/ survival mode to be drawn to a land of milk and honey.

The country with the highest paying jobs, best benefit system, good geographic location, reasonable immigration rules and English as the main language will be the most appealing for both economic and illegal migration.

America and the UK have always been right and the top of that list, the current Trump administration will likely see the UK as the easier option at the moment.

Exactly. With regards the "end game" I'd say that maintaining global stability is a big one. If maintaining something can be an end-game. And global stability is generally helped by diplomacy, foreign aid and compromise. Unfortunately warfare and climate change are two things that are make life worse for people in some countries and make it more likely they look to live elsewhere. Even spending big sums of money and risking their lives to do so.

[oyster]

Migration is as old as the human race. Humans have always migrated.

All that’s different now are the legal constructs in place that deem one type of migration legal and another illegal.

[Challo]

bergclimber34 said:

Have asked this obliquely before. But a fascinating topic in our time.

But, with the almost worldwide illegal immigration crisis, especially what we know in Europe, and this bizarre Cueta situation.

What is the end game, why is it not being stamped out more fiercely, is there an ulterior motive above political power to allow it? Is there an agenda somewhere?

Is there anything you can legally do to stop it, it seems Poland and Hungary have drawn lines in the sand, why don't France, UK, Germany etc?

Is it as big a problem as we feel?

Or is there some huge global agenda trying to be all inclusive, when surely they know that is not really possible, is it being forced on us
.

Why not think about it from a migrant perspective. If you had the opportunity to improve your life, your families life, better yourself by moving to a Western country would you not want to perhaps take the risk and travel?

Perhaps you look at your current situation, and like the opportunities and money that the Western countries can offer you. Not difficult really.