Lib Dems Bless them
Discussion
I have looked for a bespoke Lib Dem thread but there isn't one, only a few ancient and archived ones so hopefully it is ok starting this one. And as Ed Davey may be giving his last speech as leader....
I feel sorry for them as the Reform, Labour and Tory threads attract lots of attention, even the Greens, but the Lib Dems attract nothing, no interest, no commentary, nada.
So what do people think of them if anything at all? Why is a party that succeeds in local politics (lord knows why) fails so badly in national politics? Why trust them on the small stuff if you can't trust them on the big tickets? Is their leader a total buffoon who just isn't worth bothering to listen to?
From my view they are pretty pointless, they don't stand for anything. A sort of soft labour with no real policy just doing what labour does but a bit more softly. Their parliamentary party is a bit of a rabble of the weird and the wired and also have very little to add about anything.
So what is the point of them, why do they bother and why do people vote for them?
I feel sorry for them as the Reform, Labour and Tory threads attract lots of attention, even the Greens, but the Lib Dems attract nothing, no interest, no commentary, nada.
So what do people think of them if anything at all? Why is a party that succeeds in local politics (lord knows why) fails so badly in national politics? Why trust them on the small stuff if you can't trust them on the big tickets? Is their leader a total buffoon who just isn't worth bothering to listen to?
From my view they are pretty pointless, they don't stand for anything. A sort of soft labour with no real policy just doing what labour does but a bit more softly. Their parliamentary party is a bit of a rabble of the weird and the wired and also have very little to add about anything.
So what is the point of them, why do they bother and why do people vote for them?
Edited by Tom8 on Tuesday 22 September 14:42
Edited by Tom8 on Tuesday 22 September 15:30
I'm a lib dem supporter. Like you say they are popular in local politics and in my county they are the main opposition to Reform. They have over 70 MPs so I would say pretty successful on a national level.
In terms of what they stand for, I would say they are obviously pro EU, pro environment, and strong on personal freedom and civil liberties. They believe in strong local democracy, proportional representation and devolution.
In terms of what they stand for, I would say they are obviously pro EU, pro environment, and strong on personal freedom and civil liberties. They believe in strong local democracy, proportional representation and devolution.
Tom8 said:
I have looked for a bespoke Lib Dem thread but there isn't one, only a few ancient and archived ones so hopefully it is ok starting this one. And as Ed Davey may be giving his last speech as leader....
I feel sorry for them as the Reform, Labour and Tory threads attract lots of attention, even the Greens, but the Lib Dems attract nothing, no interest, no commentary, nada.
So what do people think of them if anything at all? Why is a party that succeeds in local politics (lord knows why) fails so badly in national politics? Why trust them on the small stuff if you can't trust them on the big tickets? Is there leader a total buffoon who just isn't worth bothering to listen to?
From my view they are pretty pointless, they don't stand for anything. A sort of soft labour with no real policy just doing what labour does but a bit more softly. Their parliamentary party is a bit of a rabble of the weird and the wired and also have very little to add about anything.
So what is the point of them, why do they bother and why do people vote for them?
Because they don't want to vote for parties that have any right wing leanings, but they think the Greens are a bit loony. I feel sorry for them as the Reform, Labour and Tory threads attract lots of attention, even the Greens, but the Lib Dems attract nothing, no interest, no commentary, nada.
So what do people think of them if anything at all? Why is a party that succeeds in local politics (lord knows why) fails so badly in national politics? Why trust them on the small stuff if you can't trust them on the big tickets? Is there leader a total buffoon who just isn't worth bothering to listen to?
From my view they are pretty pointless, they don't stand for anything. A sort of soft labour with no real policy just doing what labour does but a bit more softly. Their parliamentary party is a bit of a rabble of the weird and the wired and also have very little to add about anything.
So what is the point of them, why do they bother and why do people vote for them?
Edited by Tom8 on Tuesday 22 September 14:42
That's the short version.
Remember as well, lots of people who don't fall for soundbites and slogans will try to vote for whichever party or candidate best represents their goals and beliefs. That will sometimes mean voting for the "best of a bad bunch" if you don't feel like any of the parties are a perfect fit. I'm sure there are people every election who vote Lib Dem knowing full well they won't win, but on general principle don't want to give their vote to the other parties for all manner of reasons - and feel like the Lib Dems' stated aims best fit their beliefs. Which is fair enough.
Tom8 said:
So what is the point of them, why do they bother and why do people vote for them?
They are, or were, the only alternative to Tories in my constituency. Labour is forever nowhere. I presume the next R party bunch will be the usual bunch of unattractive criminals in late middle age. For a party with 71 MPs it's very strange how invisible they are.
If they ever got leadership with vision and magnetism there is a lot of ground for the taking. Labour seem to be itching to return to the 1970s. Conservatives are an increasingly pisspoor Nige ripoff. I don't know anyone who wants either of that.
Little sign of such leadership at the moment.
Well, I've only ever voted for them.
First time I was eligible to vote was the 1997 election and I've been bucking the trend ever since!
Down here in Somerset they're a popular party and, as you say, they have a good track record in local politics.
We kicked a Conservative out in 2024 and replaced her with a Lib Dem chap. A pleasing result as I suppose it helped to unseat the Conservatives nationally and I think he's doing a better job locally so far.
I'd argue the opposite in terms of small stuff/big stuff. Why aren't people willing to give them a proper go nationally when they've shown they're good locally?
Plus, other than the tuition fees debacle, I think they did well in the coalition and were a good counter to the Conservatives.
Reform's track record in local politics is short and hasn't been very successful. Yet people seem to think they'll miraculously turn into a party that can cope with the pressure if they get in. I seriously doubt it.
First time I was eligible to vote was the 1997 election and I've been bucking the trend ever since!
Down here in Somerset they're a popular party and, as you say, they have a good track record in local politics.
We kicked a Conservative out in 2024 and replaced her with a Lib Dem chap. A pleasing result as I suppose it helped to unseat the Conservatives nationally and I think he's doing a better job locally so far.
I'd argue the opposite in terms of small stuff/big stuff. Why aren't people willing to give them a proper go nationally when they've shown they're good locally?
Plus, other than the tuition fees debacle, I think they did well in the coalition and were a good counter to the Conservatives.
Reform's track record in local politics is short and hasn't been very successful. Yet people seem to think they'll miraculously turn into a party that can cope with the pressure if they get in. I seriously doubt it.
Libdems do alright.
They have 70+ MPs, lead over 70 councils with around 3400 councillors and they by and large quietly get on with it. They are not as divisive or maybe as extreme as the other parties and I think some people appreciate that. Some people just want boring politics and to just get on quietly with the job which, by and large, the Libdems do.
I also think that while politics is as divisive as it currently is, it’s a place for people to park their vote especially if you’re centre right or left and don’t agree with Kemi or Burnham’s direction and also as a blocking vote in some areas against parties like Reform getting in.
I don’t think Davey has done enough to promote the party however and has resorted to stunts to get some headlines which is a sad indictment especially during the last election when the media circus would ignore them unless Davey did something stupid with a dolphin or whatever.
They have 70+ MPs, lead over 70 councils with around 3400 councillors and they by and large quietly get on with it. They are not as divisive or maybe as extreme as the other parties and I think some people appreciate that. Some people just want boring politics and to just get on quietly with the job which, by and large, the Libdems do.
I also think that while politics is as divisive as it currently is, it’s a place for people to park their vote especially if you’re centre right or left and don’t agree with Kemi or Burnham’s direction and also as a blocking vote in some areas against parties like Reform getting in.
I don’t think Davey has done enough to promote the party however and has resorted to stunts to get some headlines which is a sad indictment especially during the last election when the media circus would ignore them unless Davey did something stupid with a dolphin or whatever.
PistonBroker said:
Reform's track record in local politics is short and hasn't been very successful. Yet people seem to think they'll miraculously turn into a party that can cope with the pressure if they get in. I seriously doubt it.
Funny how a ton of money being funneled into a party from shady sources to fund social media campaigns and sneak polls they commissioned into the newspapers as if they are impartial can sway low information voters, isn't it? A very good friend of mine was a Lib Dem councillor and was defeated while standing as an MP (in a strong Labour heartland TBF). He couldn't be more Lib Dem if he tried - Guardian reading human rights lawyer, married to an EU-citizen doctor. Obviously pro-EU, pro-immigration, anti-countryside. We literally disagree on every major issue of the day, and I could never vote for them even if they were the only entry on the ballot. But we get on well when we catch up and generally avoid discussing politics, just as any polite conversation should.
I just kind of see The Lib Dems as the inbetweeners grown up. Not the smart kids, or the talented ones, or the athletic ones, or the naughty ones, or the attractive ones. Just the ignored, invisible ones in the middle, who don't really know who they are or what they want. They'd be dangerous if they were half as smart as they think they are, but they aren't. I could never hate them in the way I might hate politicians of other persuasions, they are so ineffectual that I can't feel anything about them.
I just kind of see The Lib Dems as the inbetweeners grown up. Not the smart kids, or the talented ones, or the athletic ones, or the naughty ones, or the attractive ones. Just the ignored, invisible ones in the middle, who don't really know who they are or what they want. They'd be dangerous if they were half as smart as they think they are, but they aren't. I could never hate them in the way I might hate politicians of other persuasions, they are so ineffectual that I can't feel anything about them.
bergclimber34 said:
Its sad that their letdown was Clegg literally disemboweling himself in the coalition over a Lib Dem red line, education.
They should be a power at this time, but have been usurped by feckless gobs
tes like Polansky on the left.
Sadly it's indicative of the electorate's increasing tendency to be swayed by populist nonsense (in both directions).They should be a power at this time, but have been usurped by feckless gobs
tes like Polansky on the left.Believe the s
te, vote for ste, get ste. Maybe we need critical thinking classes in school...
valiant said:
Libdems do alright.
They have 70+ MPs, lead over 70 councils with around 3400 councillors and they by and large quietly get on with it. They are not as divisive or maybe as extreme as the other parties and I think some people appreciate that. Some people just want boring politics and to just get on quietly with the job which, by and large, the Libdems do.
I also think that while politics is as divisive as it currently is, it s a place for people to park their vote especially if you re centre right or left and don t agree with Kemi or Burnham s direction and also as a blocking vote in some areas against parties like Reform getting in.
I don t think Davey has done enough to promote the party however and has resorted to stunts to get some headlines which is a sad indictment especially during the last election when the media circus would ignore them unless Davey did something stupid with a dolphin or whatever.
My old boss did lots of work for the local lib dems, and works closely now he is retired on door knocking and supporting where he can. They have 70+ MPs, lead over 70 councils with around 3400 councillors and they by and large quietly get on with it. They are not as divisive or maybe as extreme as the other parties and I think some people appreciate that. Some people just want boring politics and to just get on quietly with the job which, by and large, the Libdems do.
I also think that while politics is as divisive as it currently is, it s a place for people to park their vote especially if you re centre right or left and don t agree with Kemi or Burnham s direction and also as a blocking vote in some areas against parties like Reform getting in.
I don t think Davey has done enough to promote the party however and has resorted to stunts to get some headlines which is a sad indictment especially during the last election when the media circus would ignore them unless Davey did something stupid with a dolphin or whatever.
I always throught they just got on with the job they where asked to do. Strong on local issues, and do not attempt to get headlines.
I am somewhat intrigued at the idea of these successful LD councils as opposed to other unsuccessful councils - how are they different and how are they identified as different?
I’m also down in the SW and we have a mixed jumble of different councils down here and I’m buggered if I can spot the successful LDs one from the others. Hell, Spotlight seems to be pretty even in pointing out all their various inadequacies!
The comparison to the new Reform councils is also amusing. Unlike, I strongly suspect, the vast majority of PH’ers I have lived under all 3 of the favourite “failure” Reform councils - Lancs, Warcs and Kent - and anybody who tells you that they were raging successes prior to Reform is outright lying. They were not. As far as I can see they carried on being as crap under Reform as they were under previous leaderships.
I’ve also had the displeasure of living with Moran as my MP and dear Lord there is somebody who is strictly in the Nadine camp of usefulness!
As you can tell, my opinion of our political lords and masters across the board is not brimming over with positive vibes.
I’m also down in the SW and we have a mixed jumble of different councils down here and I’m buggered if I can spot the successful LDs one from the others. Hell, Spotlight seems to be pretty even in pointing out all their various inadequacies!
The comparison to the new Reform councils is also amusing. Unlike, I strongly suspect, the vast majority of PH’ers I have lived under all 3 of the favourite “failure” Reform councils - Lancs, Warcs and Kent - and anybody who tells you that they were raging successes prior to Reform is outright lying. They were not. As far as I can see they carried on being as crap under Reform as they were under previous leaderships.
I’ve also had the displeasure of living with Moran as my MP and dear Lord there is somebody who is strictly in the Nadine camp of usefulness!
As you can tell, my opinion of our political lords and masters across the board is not brimming over with positive vibes.
Tom8 said:
Why is a party that succeeds in local politics (lord knows why) fails so badly in national politics? Why trust them on the small stuff if you can't trust them on the big tickets? Is there leader a total buffoon who just isn't worth bothering to listen to?
From my view they are pretty pointless, they don't stand for anything.
I think that's probably the reason a lot of people vote for them. Reform/Conservatives will do some loony right wing thing, Labour/Greens will do some loony left wing thing, and a lot of people who'd rather just continue the status quo will vote for the party that probably won't do any loony things.From my view they are pretty pointless, they don't stand for anything.
RizzoTheRat said:
I think that's probably the reason a lot of people vote for them. Reform/Conservatives will do some loony right wing thing, Labour/Greens will do some loony left wing thing, and a lot of people who'd rather just continue the status quo will vote for the party that probably won't do any loony things.
Exactly. Lots of people consider themselves broadly centrist, and don't align with parties on the hard left or hard right. (cue R-party afficionados claiming that their party isn't hard right...)
I just spent 15 minutes thinking of what I might type in this reply as I made and then ate my sandwich. I must have put several thousand words through my mind, but…
Honestly I don’t know what to think about the LibDems. I really don’t. I suspect their successes, failures and support is far harder to pin down than for Labour and/or the Conservatives and will have varying reasons behind their support across time, geography and political institution.
I’ve been trying to figure out what is a LibDem and why people do/don’t support them for approaching four decades and I remain befuddled.
I’ve lived in SW London my whole life (where the LibDems have a bit of a foothold)
My degree was (largely) in Politics.
I worked for some time in Westminster.
I have professional politicians in my family.
I still struggle.
I saw a piece yesterday which I think rightly asked questions about why they (the LibDems) seem to be struggling to make much progress in the current climate. Seems fair to ask the question. National polling isn’t spectacular. They did well converting votes to 70 MPs. But look at the spectacular rise of Reform in recent years hoovering up a collapse in Conservative and Labour support. Polling since the last election hasn’t been great.
A likeable and charismatic leader would help, I'm sure. Ed Davey polls middlingly. I do wonder how Paddy Ashdown would do in these modern times.
Honestly I don’t know what to think about the LibDems. I really don’t. I suspect their successes, failures and support is far harder to pin down than for Labour and/or the Conservatives and will have varying reasons behind their support across time, geography and political institution.
I’ve been trying to figure out what is a LibDem and why people do/don’t support them for approaching four decades and I remain befuddled.
I’ve lived in SW London my whole life (where the LibDems have a bit of a foothold)
My degree was (largely) in Politics.
I worked for some time in Westminster.
I have professional politicians in my family.
I still struggle.
I saw a piece yesterday which I think rightly asked questions about why they (the LibDems) seem to be struggling to make much progress in the current climate. Seems fair to ask the question. National polling isn’t spectacular. They did well converting votes to 70 MPs. But look at the spectacular rise of Reform in recent years hoovering up a collapse in Conservative and Labour support. Polling since the last election hasn’t been great.
A likeable and charismatic leader would help, I'm sure. Ed Davey polls middlingly. I do wonder how Paddy Ashdown would do in these modern times.
-Lummox- said:
PistonBroker said:
Reform's track record in local politics is short and hasn't been very successful. Yet people seem to think they'll miraculously turn into a party that can cope with the pressure if they get in. I seriously doubt it.
Funny how a ton of money being funneled into a party from shady sources to fund social media campaigns and sneak polls they commissioned into the newspapers as if they are impartial can sway low information voters, isn't it? My wife, mother-in-law and brother-in-law have all fallen for it. I'm a loony lefty as far as they're concerned!
WH16 said:
A very good friend of mine was a Lib Dem councillor and was defeated while standing as an MP (in a strong Labour heartland TBF). He couldn't be more Lib Dem if he tried - Guardian reading human rights lawyer, married to an EU-citizen doctor. Obviously pro-EU, pro-immigration, anti-countryside. We literally disagree on every major issue of the day, and I could never vote for them even if they were the only entry on the ballot. But we get on well when we catch up and generally avoid discussing politics, just as any polite conversation should.
I just kind of see The Lib Dems as the inbetweeners grown up. Not the smart kids, or the talented ones, or the athletic ones, or the naughty ones, or the attractive ones. Just the ignored, invisible ones in the middle, who don't really know who they are or what they want. They'd be dangerous if they were half as smart as they think they are, but they aren't. I could never hate them in the way I might hate politicians of other persuasions, they are so ineffectual that I can't feel anything about them.
I think you're right, people who have never really been anything. Magnolia people with pretty magnolia views, summed up a lot by their view that the only way we can thrive as the UK is through relying on someone else to magically do it all for us.I just kind of see The Lib Dems as the inbetweeners grown up. Not the smart kids, or the talented ones, or the athletic ones, or the naughty ones, or the attractive ones. Just the ignored, invisible ones in the middle, who don't really know who they are or what they want. They'd be dangerous if they were half as smart as they think they are, but they aren't. I could never hate them in the way I might hate politicians of other persuasions, they are so ineffectual that I can't feel anything about them.
Having said that, the only government of the last 20 years that seemed to work well was the coalition in which they were involved. Will be interesting to see what happens to them at the next GE, I think they will go backwards again as I think it will become more polarised as the election gets closer.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff