US and gun control
Discussion
from the beeb:
Sat 4 April: Father is suspected of shooting dead his five children, then himself, near Seattle
Sat 4 April: Gunman kills three policemen in Pittsburgh before being wounded and captured
Fri 3 April: Gunman kills 13 people at an immigration centre in Binghamton, New York state, then apparently shoots himself
Sun 29 March: Gunman kills seven elderly residents and a nurse at a nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina, then is shot and wounded himself
Sun 29 March: Man kills five relatives and himself in Santa Clara, California
and thats just last week. when will the US see sense?
discuss
Sat 4 April: Father is suspected of shooting dead his five children, then himself, near Seattle
Sat 4 April: Gunman kills three policemen in Pittsburgh before being wounded and captured
Fri 3 April: Gunman kills 13 people at an immigration centre in Binghamton, New York state, then apparently shoots himself
Sun 29 March: Gunman kills seven elderly residents and a nurse at a nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina, then is shot and wounded himself
Sun 29 March: Man kills five relatives and himself in Santa Clara, California
and thats just last week. when will the US see sense?
discuss
shirt said:
from the beeb:
Sat 4 April: Father is suspected of shooting dead his five children, then himself, near Seattle
Sat 4 April: Gunman kills three policemen in Pittsburgh before being wounded and captured
Fri 3 April: Gunman kills 13 people at an immigration centre in Binghamton, New York state, then apparently shoots himself
Sun 29 March: Gunman kills seven elderly residents and a nurse at a nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina, then is shot and wounded himself
Sun 29 March: Man kills five relatives and himself in Santa Clara, California
and thats just last week. when will the US see sense?
Well you're obviously open minded.Sat 4 April: Father is suspected of shooting dead his five children, then himself, near Seattle
Sat 4 April: Gunman kills three policemen in Pittsburgh before being wounded and captured
Fri 3 April: Gunman kills 13 people at an immigration centre in Binghamton, New York state, then apparently shoots himself
Sun 29 March: Gunman kills seven elderly residents and a nurse at a nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina, then is shot and wounded himself
Sun 29 March: Man kills five relatives and himself in Santa Clara, California
and thats just last week. when will the US see sense?
shirt said:
discuss
No point.I always think that bringing in increased gun control in the states is a tricky one. Strict gun laws work here, after a fashion, because there's not all that many guns floating around. Banning them in the US would just lead to an enormous amount of illegal weapons. Also, unlike here, many of these guns would be held by otherwise law abiding citizens who regard gun ownership as a fundamental right.
And we don't have gun crime? Lots of it? Despite some of the toughest gun control laws in the world?
The States has it's own balance to strike between freedoms and contraints to protect society. They DO control guns, require permits and so on.
It would be interesting to compare the usage of legally held weapons in crimes in the UK and US. I doubt it's as clear a picture as the OP seems to think.
Time for a spot of lunchtime Googling.
The States has it's own balance to strike between freedoms and contraints to protect society. They DO control guns, require permits and so on.
It would be interesting to compare the usage of legally held weapons in crimes in the UK and US. I doubt it's as clear a picture as the OP seems to think.
Time for a spot of lunchtime Googling.
From http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0
don't get me wrong, i know its a complex issue and there is no easy solution, but it seems 'going postal' is becoming more and more frequent over the pond with seemingly little being done to address the issue.
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0
don't get me wrong, i know its a complex issue and there is no easy solution, but it seems 'going postal' is becoming more and more frequent over the pond with seemingly little being done to address the issue.
i'll post the table again as the ad has b
ksed my formatting!
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide / Suicide / Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0
eta - i give up on the formatting!
ksed my formatting!Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide / Suicide / Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0
eta - i give up on the formatting!
Edited by shirt on Monday 6th April 14:48
shirt said:
i'll post the table again as the ad has bksed my formatting!
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide / Suicide / Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0
To be of any use doesn't the table need to detail the number of guns per 100,000 population? Although I've no idea how you would estimate the number of illegally held guns. ksed my formatting!Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide / Suicide / Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0
In response to the father shooting his children, there have certainly been cases in the UK where a father has gassed his kids, so there is no proof that banning firearms would have made any difference to that case.
Personally I'm in favour of an armed populace, keeps the state on its toes.
Fittster said:
To be of any use doesn't the table need to detail the number of guns per 100,000 population? Although I've no idea how you would estimate the number of illegally held guns.
From "The US gun stock: results from the 2004 national firearms survey.L Hepburn, M Miller, D Azrael and D Hemenway";Results: 38% of households and 26% of individuals reported owning at least one firearm. This corresponds to 42 million US households with firearms, and 57 million adult gun owners. 64% of gun owners or 16% of American adults reported owning at least one handgun. Long guns represent 60% of the privately held gun stock. Almost half (48%) of all individual gun owners reported owning >=4 firearms. Men more often reported firearm ownership, with 45% stating that they personally owned at least one firearm, compared with 11% for women.
Conclusions: The US population continues to contain at least one firearm for every adult, and ownership is becoming increasingly concentrated. Long guns are the most prevalent type of gun in the US but handgun ownership is widespread. Ownership demographic patterns support findings of previous studies.
Don't know the stats for other countries.
Edited by hairykrishna on Monday 6th April 15:02
Fittster said:
Personally I'm in favour of an armed populace, keeps the state on its toes.
To be honest I'm not in favour of an "armed populace". People are numpties. Numpties with guns - very bad.I am in favour of properly qualified civilians being able to legally own and use firearms, however, for sporting purposes. Getting a firearms licence should be as onerous as it is today....but we should probably get rid of the silly rules that scuppered our Olympic shooting team.
I am not sure I want people to be allowed to carry a concealed pistol. I'm quite happy that they OWN one, mind. And go to the club to shoot it. If pistol rules were relaxed in the UK I'd own a Glock and target shoot it regularly...at the club where it would be kept in its locker.
Don said:
Fittster said:
Personally I'm in favour of an armed populace, keeps the state on its toes.
To be honest I'm not in favour of an "armed populace". People are numpties. Numpties with guns - very bad.I am in favour of properly qualified civilians being able to legally own and use firearms, however, for sporting purposes. Getting a firearms licence should be as onerous as it is today....but we should probably get rid of the silly rules that scuppered our Olympic shooting team.
I am not sure I want people to be allowed to carry a concealed pistol. I'm quite happy that they OWN one, mind. And go to the club to shoot it. If pistol rules were relaxed in the UK I'd own a Glock and target shoot it regularly...at the club where it would be kept in its locker.
hairykrishna said:
Don said:
Fittster said:
Personally I'm in favour of an armed populace, keeps the state on its toes.
To be honest I'm not in favour of an "armed populace". People are numpties. Numpties with guns - very bad.I am in favour of properly qualified civilians being able to legally own and use firearms, however, for sporting purposes. Getting a firearms licence should be as onerous as it is today....but we should probably get rid of the silly rules that scuppered our Olympic shooting team.
I am not sure I want people to be allowed to carry a concealed pistol. I'm quite happy that they OWN one, mind. And go to the club to shoot it. If pistol rules were relaxed in the UK I'd own a Glock and target shoot it regularly...at the club where it would be kept in its locker.
I am all for strict gun control. How it is now is fine.
What I don't understand is why hand guns are banned?
What will happen for the shooting events at the 2012 Olympics? Will they be in France?
I don't understand why it still makes the news here - if they wanted to put a stop to the massacres they could take a giant stride towards it in one fell swoop.
We all know what that is but as they wont do it why should we still devote media time etc to the latest attrocity. If they can't see the sense in introducing the obvious solution then let 'em get on with culling their own...
We all know what that is but as they wont do it why should we still devote media time etc to the latest attrocity. If they can't see the sense in introducing the obvious solution then let 'em get on with culling their own...
Hey this is PH so im sure the usual "dont blame the gun, blame the person" stuff will appear.
There is an argument for, of course, because when you compare the stats some countries who have similar gun laws show far lower gun crime figures.
That is undoubtedly due to a far higher average IQ and reduced moronic paranoia that the average US citizen.
But the truth is that no one really needs an m-16 or an uzi etc etc. as much as no one needs a hand grenade or a bazooka.
I have no issue with gun clubs and shooting ranges, hunting etc. but gun ownership on the scale of the US in the UK would be a total disaster.
(And why is it that people who are into guns always sound like Alan Partridge.?)
There is an argument for, of course, because when you compare the stats some countries who have similar gun laws show far lower gun crime figures.
That is undoubtedly due to a far higher average IQ and reduced moronic paranoia that the average US citizen.
But the truth is that no one really needs an m-16 or an uzi etc etc. as much as no one needs a hand grenade or a bazooka.
I have no issue with gun clubs and shooting ranges, hunting etc. but gun ownership on the scale of the US in the UK would be a total disaster.
(And why is it that people who are into guns always sound like Alan Partridge.?)
I agree that relaxing UK gun laws to be in line with the US would be a disaster. I don't agree that it follows that increasing US gun control to UK levels would bring their gun crime levels down massively.
There are simply too many guns floating around over there. Most crimes committed with handguns in the US are committed by people already prohibited from possessing one. I'm not sure how they can go from their current situation of massive gun ownership (several guns per head of population) to one where a gun is difficult to obtain.
Personally I slightly resent the fact that I'm not allowed a handgun if I want one. I'm a responsible person and would look after it and use it responsibly. However, I'm sane enough to realise that I'm giving up a fairly unimportant right/privilege in exchange for making it much harder for people who really shouldn't be allowed a gun to get one.
There are simply too many guns floating around over there. Most crimes committed with handguns in the US are committed by people already prohibited from possessing one. I'm not sure how they can go from their current situation of massive gun ownership (several guns per head of population) to one where a gun is difficult to obtain.
Personally I slightly resent the fact that I'm not allowed a handgun if I want one. I'm a responsible person and would look after it and use it responsibly. However, I'm sane enough to realise that I'm giving up a fairly unimportant right/privilege in exchange for making it much harder for people who really shouldn't be allowed a gun to get one.
im said:
I'm sorry - I can't bring myself to state the obvious...re-read the gun stats above for homicide and work it out yourself.
Adopt similar laws to Canada?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canad...
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