Tesco CEO attacks education standards
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8306013.stm
Government response is that vast majority of people working in education are on the front line (unlike in the NHS!). But that doesn't mean they aren't smothered in redtape and form filling when not teaching, so unable to plan/mark properly...
BBC said:
Standards in many state schools are "woefully low" and employers must "pick up the pieces", the boss of the UK's biggest supermarket chain has said.
Tesco chief executive Sir Terry Leahy, who is also an education adviser to the prime minister, said his company was particularly concerned about education.
"As the largest private employer in the country, we depend on high standards in our schools," he said.
The government commented that secondary school standards had never been higher.
"Sadly, despite all the money that has been spent, standards are still woefully low in too many schools," Sir Terry told the Institute of Grocery Distribution's annual conference.
"Employers like us, and I suspect many of you, are often left to pick up the pieces.
"From my perspective there are too many agencies and bodies, often issuing reams of instructions to teachers, who then get distracted from the task at hand: teaching children."
But the government denied that this was the case.
"Standards have never been higher in our secondary schools. The vast majority of people working in education are on the front line, teaching in our schools," a spokesman for the Department for Children, Schools and Families said.
"There are several non-departmental bodies, but it's clearly right and proper that issues such as exam standards are regulated by an independent body."
Sir Terry's views were echoed by John Cridland, director general of the CBI, who said the Tesco chief's concerns were "shared by a wide range of the business community".
Interesting comments from the government's education advisor...Tesco chief executive Sir Terry Leahy, who is also an education adviser to the prime minister, said his company was particularly concerned about education.
"As the largest private employer in the country, we depend on high standards in our schools," he said.
The government commented that secondary school standards had never been higher.
"Sadly, despite all the money that has been spent, standards are still woefully low in too many schools," Sir Terry told the Institute of Grocery Distribution's annual conference.
"Employers like us, and I suspect many of you, are often left to pick up the pieces.
"From my perspective there are too many agencies and bodies, often issuing reams of instructions to teachers, who then get distracted from the task at hand: teaching children."
But the government denied that this was the case.
"Standards have never been higher in our secondary schools. The vast majority of people working in education are on the front line, teaching in our schools," a spokesman for the Department for Children, Schools and Families said.
"There are several non-departmental bodies, but it's clearly right and proper that issues such as exam standards are regulated by an independent body."
Sir Terry's views were echoed by John Cridland, director general of the CBI, who said the Tesco chief's concerns were "shared by a wide range of the business community".
Government response is that vast majority of people working in education are on the front line (unlike in the NHS!). But that doesn't mean they aren't smothered in redtape and form filling when not teaching, so unable to plan/mark properly...
This government never seems able to heed criticism.
Do they think that heads of industry are saying these things for fun? That they made them up? That they are all Tory toffs trying to undermine true Labour comrades?
The arrogance and the capacity to look the other way when valid comments are raised is just amazing.
Do they think that heads of industry are saying these things for fun? That they made them up? That they are all Tory toffs trying to undermine true Labour comrades?
The arrogance and the capacity to look the other way when valid comments are raised is just amazing.
FNG said:
This government never seems able to heed criticism.
Do they think that heads of industry are saying these things for fun? That they made them up? That they are all Tory toffs trying to undermine true Labour comrades?
The arrogance and the capacity to look the other way when valid comments are raised is just amazing.
You've just eloquently summed up my frustration with this Government. Y'know, the one that promised they were 'listening' and that 'lessons must be learned' all the time.Do they think that heads of industry are saying these things for fun? That they made them up? That they are all Tory toffs trying to undermine true Labour comrades?
The arrogance and the capacity to look the other way when valid comments are raised is just amazing.
Education is in a very sorry state. We went to a parents evening and were told that she was doing "fine". When asked to elucidate we were told that "she'll easily get five grade C GCSE's".
It's all very sad.
Needless to say she is no longer at that school (which incidentally had an outstanding Ofsted report and is ranked 9th in the country!)
It's all very sad.
Needless to say she is no longer at that school (which incidentally had an outstanding Ofsted report and is ranked 9th in the country!)
Edited by cuneus on Wednesday 14th October 10:25
one friend in teaching has just started their first term using the new teaching methodology required by ofsted.
It took them a month to work out exactly what was required, because they simply couldn't believe the obvious answer could be correct.
She isn't allowed to teach. She must "present" some questions, then leave them for the lesson to "draw their own conclusions"...
It took them a month to work out exactly what was required, because they simply couldn't believe the obvious answer could be correct.
She isn't allowed to teach. She must "present" some questions, then leave them for the lesson to "draw their own conclusions"...
Thing is, it's worked for them.
Especially for those ministers and MPs who've been found out. Lessons will be learned and we will take steps to make sure it can't happen again - and the snout goes directly back into the trough.
They even started the online petition thing, and then ignore every one that doesn't sit exactly with their world view. To spend money running that system and then fob off the population with a party political "we're doing great, you're all wrong" response is criminal.
My OH is a primary school teacher, she is in a challenged school that's mainly populated by kids from shared housing, sheltered housing, and those who've been removed from other schools.
She teaches three separate years in one class.
- the pupils speak 22 different languages as their native tongue, in a population of under 60 kids
- the majority of the kids are damaged in some way, with mental health problems, total lack of social skills, depression and suicidal even
- some can't speak English as they're straight off a boat from Afghanistan, yet they're put into a normal class aged 9 and expected to learn English simply by listening, while they're learning about isosceles triangles and long division
- the 5 year olds communicate largely by screaming at each other and hitting each other - probably copying what their parents do. Some aren't toilet trained by that age
- some of them are on a protected register due to suspected fiddling from "Uncle Bob" who met mum on the internet
It's an impossible job to educate these kids because their parents have given them pretty much no hope, the teachers spend more time trying to instill a semblance of discipline and work ethic that's completely absent, and the school hasn't got the resources to deal with kids' special needs.
The truth is that over half of the kids are in dire need of being handed to caring foster parents, getting specialist tuition, and learning from scratch.
My OH works 11 hours a day and most of Saturday just to keep up with lesson preparation, marking and metrics, and most of her holidays - by which time she's mentally drained from the effort of being permanently positive and whizzy in front of the kids - is spent catching up on admin.
Whose fault is it? Well the long hours can be laid at the door of the government can't they? Social breakdown has its price, and the kids in our schools are paying it.
Be prepared for even fewer literate and numerate and socially capable kids leaving school in the next 5 years, despite the teachers' very best efforts.
Especially for those ministers and MPs who've been found out. Lessons will be learned and we will take steps to make sure it can't happen again - and the snout goes directly back into the trough.
They even started the online petition thing, and then ignore every one that doesn't sit exactly with their world view. To spend money running that system and then fob off the population with a party political "we're doing great, you're all wrong" response is criminal.
My OH is a primary school teacher, she is in a challenged school that's mainly populated by kids from shared housing, sheltered housing, and those who've been removed from other schools.
She teaches three separate years in one class.
- the pupils speak 22 different languages as their native tongue, in a population of under 60 kids
- the majority of the kids are damaged in some way, with mental health problems, total lack of social skills, depression and suicidal even
- some can't speak English as they're straight off a boat from Afghanistan, yet they're put into a normal class aged 9 and expected to learn English simply by listening, while they're learning about isosceles triangles and long division
- the 5 year olds communicate largely by screaming at each other and hitting each other - probably copying what their parents do. Some aren't toilet trained by that age
- some of them are on a protected register due to suspected fiddling from "Uncle Bob" who met mum on the internet
It's an impossible job to educate these kids because their parents have given them pretty much no hope, the teachers spend more time trying to instill a semblance of discipline and work ethic that's completely absent, and the school hasn't got the resources to deal with kids' special needs.
The truth is that over half of the kids are in dire need of being handed to caring foster parents, getting specialist tuition, and learning from scratch.
My OH works 11 hours a day and most of Saturday just to keep up with lesson preparation, marking and metrics, and most of her holidays - by which time she's mentally drained from the effort of being permanently positive and whizzy in front of the kids - is spent catching up on admin.
Whose fault is it? Well the long hours can be laid at the door of the government can't they? Social breakdown has its price, and the kids in our schools are paying it.
Be prepared for even fewer literate and numerate and socially capable kids leaving school in the next 5 years, despite the teachers' very best efforts.
FNG said:
Thing is, it's worked for them.
Especially for those ministers and MPs who've been found out. Lessons will be learned and we will take steps to make sure it can't happen again - and the snout goes directly back into the trough.
They even started the online petition thing, and then ignore every one that doesn't sit exactly with their world view. To spend money running that system and then fob off the population with a party political "we're doing great, you're all wrong" response is criminal.
My OH is a primary school teacher, she is in a challenged school that's mainly populated by kids from shared housing, sheltered housing, and those who've been removed from other schools.
She teaches three separate years in one class.
- the pupils speak 22 different languages as their native tongue, in a population of under 60 kids
- the majority of the kids are damaged in some way, with mental health problems, total lack of social skills, depression and suicidal even
- some can't speak English as they're straight off a boat from Afghanistan, yet they're put into a normal class aged 9 and expected to learn English simply by listening, while they're learning about isosceles triangles and long division
- the 5 year olds communicate largely by screaming at each other and hitting each other - probably copying what their parents do. Some aren't toilet trained by that age
- some of them are on a protected register due to suspected fiddling from "Uncle Bob" who met mum on the internet
It's an impossible job to educate these kids because their parents have given them pretty much no hope, the teachers spend more time trying to instill a semblance of discipline and work ethic that's completely absent, and the school hasn't got the resources to deal with kids' special needs.
The truth is that over half of the kids are in dire need of being handed to caring foster parents, getting specialist tuition, and learning from scratch.
My OH works 11 hours a day and most of Saturday just to keep up with lesson preparation, marking and metrics, and most of her holidays - by which time she's mentally drained from the effort of being permanently positive and whizzy in front of the kids - is spent catching up on admin.
Whose fault is it? Well the long hours can be laid at the door of the government can't they? Social breakdown has its price, and the kids in our schools are paying it.
Be prepared for even fewer literate and numerate and socially capable kids leaving school in the next 5 years, despite the teachers' very best efforts.
My mum is a primary school teacher too - has been for 30 years - and she can't begin to describe the frustrations that have crept into the job in recent years. Your summary is pretty much spot-on.Especially for those ministers and MPs who've been found out. Lessons will be learned and we will take steps to make sure it can't happen again - and the snout goes directly back into the trough.
They even started the online petition thing, and then ignore every one that doesn't sit exactly with their world view. To spend money running that system and then fob off the population with a party political "we're doing great, you're all wrong" response is criminal.
My OH is a primary school teacher, she is in a challenged school that's mainly populated by kids from shared housing, sheltered housing, and those who've been removed from other schools.
She teaches three separate years in one class.
- the pupils speak 22 different languages as their native tongue, in a population of under 60 kids
- the majority of the kids are damaged in some way, with mental health problems, total lack of social skills, depression and suicidal even
- some can't speak English as they're straight off a boat from Afghanistan, yet they're put into a normal class aged 9 and expected to learn English simply by listening, while they're learning about isosceles triangles and long division
- the 5 year olds communicate largely by screaming at each other and hitting each other - probably copying what their parents do. Some aren't toilet trained by that age
- some of them are on a protected register due to suspected fiddling from "Uncle Bob" who met mum on the internet
It's an impossible job to educate these kids because their parents have given them pretty much no hope, the teachers spend more time trying to instill a semblance of discipline and work ethic that's completely absent, and the school hasn't got the resources to deal with kids' special needs.
The truth is that over half of the kids are in dire need of being handed to caring foster parents, getting specialist tuition, and learning from scratch.
My OH works 11 hours a day and most of Saturday just to keep up with lesson preparation, marking and metrics, and most of her holidays - by which time she's mentally drained from the effort of being permanently positive and whizzy in front of the kids - is spent catching up on admin.
Whose fault is it? Well the long hours can be laid at the door of the government can't they? Social breakdown has its price, and the kids in our schools are paying it.
Be prepared for even fewer literate and numerate and socially capable kids leaving school in the next 5 years, despite the teachers' very best efforts.
FNG said:
This government never seems able to heed criticism.
Do they think that heads of industry are saying these things for fun? That they made them up? That they are all Tory toffs trying to undermine true Labour comrades?
The arrogance and the capacity to look the other way when valid comments are raised is just amazing.
Exactly what I thought, clearly government advisors are only worth listening to when they give the "correct" answer!Do they think that heads of industry are saying these things for fun? That they made them up? That they are all Tory toffs trying to undermine true Labour comrades?
The arrogance and the capacity to look the other way when valid comments are raised is just amazing.
Influential person in industry states bleedin' obvious shocker!
It has been an issue for years that our education system is run by people who have little or no interaction or involvement with what I would call 'the real world'. Yes, I am sure they are hard working with the best intentions at heart, but unfortunately the vast majority have little or no understanding of what a competitive job market is and why having industry relevant skills, abilities and knowledge might be a little more useful than say some of the crap that they get taught.
What worries me is that even with all of this needless scoring, marking and assessment of schools that goes on, there still can be massive interpretation of the guidelines and a massive gulf of different teaching abilities between local schools - never mind those more spread out. If we cannot have a consistent and effective education system there is little point doing much else.
Just like the NHS, the education system is littered with professional consultants and middle managers who soak up the money which could actually get spent on doing something.
It has been an issue for years that our education system is run by people who have little or no interaction or involvement with what I would call 'the real world'. Yes, I am sure they are hard working with the best intentions at heart, but unfortunately the vast majority have little or no understanding of what a competitive job market is and why having industry relevant skills, abilities and knowledge might be a little more useful than say some of the crap that they get taught.
What worries me is that even with all of this needless scoring, marking and assessment of schools that goes on, there still can be massive interpretation of the guidelines and a massive gulf of different teaching abilities between local schools - never mind those more spread out. If we cannot have a consistent and effective education system there is little point doing much else.
Just like the NHS, the education system is littered with professional consultants and middle managers who soak up the money which could actually get spent on doing something.
I don't think Tesco does too badly out of this country. If as an employer he wants a higher standard of employee then he should install a wage structure to attract the higher achievers.
Or does Tesco deliberately take on the less well educated people in areas as a pay off for being allowed to put retail outlet on every street corner?
Most poorly educated people get massive grants off the government to train whilst at work anyway.
He wants monkeys to put stuff on shelves and he pays his peanuts.
Or does Tesco deliberately take on the less well educated people in areas as a pay off for being allowed to put retail outlet on every street corner?
Most poorly educated people get massive grants off the government to train whilst at work anyway.
He wants monkeys to put stuff on shelves and he pays his peanuts.
The snag is, short of Eugenics, it is impossible to get better results without hotrodding the curriculum and resorting to criterion based results.
You will see that most universities are "teaching" degrees, rather than letting the students "read" and getting more boxes ticked. Hence why there is such a fuss about which uni, etc.
Various gripes about classroom practise are related to this:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcome-based_educati...
...which is a particular framework from top to tail of inputs and outputs. Throw in a few lazy academic advisors who have flipped through such non-work as Gardner and Kagan, designed in order to facilitate learning through novel stunts. There are some very good points in OBE as well as Gardner/Kagan but the bottom line is that you have to get the kids interest and then apply the material.
Education has gone out the window and has been replaced by very clever training (to pass a simple exam). Industry are merely whining that the product is inept.
I've held contracts in a couple of schools and taught in a couple of dozen more. Scientific understanding in students is crap, A' Levels are a shock even though the content is watered down. Staff are beaten into shape by this chase for stats and pressure to be applying AND DEMONSTRATING THEY HAVE APPLIED ON PAPER the latest thinking and indoctrination group-think madness.
I got in a fair amount of trouble with my attitude in my training year. My attitude is "As long as the results are good and everyone is enjoying themselves without breaking the law, who cares how I reach that point?" I had the usual clucking from the staff about the usual non-think, because honestly, they don't question it either. It is a system that relentlessly hammers whatever shaped peg into a hole. It doesn't take into the consideration the peg or the hole, it just uses a bigger hammer if the first one doesn't work. It works with staff and students alike. The only peoper I've met who are not unthinking (yet perhaps very very intelligent) about these matters are old boys about to retire and disfunctional supply teachers.
Standards have slipped and the only way to raise them is to seemingly make everything more micromanaged, inpersonal and acronym laden.
I always laugh that teachers have to go on courses. To me, this sums up everything which is wrong with the system.
You will see that most universities are "teaching" degrees, rather than letting the students "read" and getting more boxes ticked. Hence why there is such a fuss about which uni, etc.
Various gripes about classroom practise are related to this:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcome-based_educati...
...which is a particular framework from top to tail of inputs and outputs. Throw in a few lazy academic advisors who have flipped through such non-work as Gardner and Kagan, designed in order to facilitate learning through novel stunts. There are some very good points in OBE as well as Gardner/Kagan but the bottom line is that you have to get the kids interest and then apply the material.
Education has gone out the window and has been replaced by very clever training (to pass a simple exam). Industry are merely whining that the product is inept.
I've held contracts in a couple of schools and taught in a couple of dozen more. Scientific understanding in students is crap, A' Levels are a shock even though the content is watered down. Staff are beaten into shape by this chase for stats and pressure to be applying AND DEMONSTRATING THEY HAVE APPLIED ON PAPER the latest thinking and indoctrination group-think madness.
I got in a fair amount of trouble with my attitude in my training year. My attitude is "As long as the results are good and everyone is enjoying themselves without breaking the law, who cares how I reach that point?" I had the usual clucking from the staff about the usual non-think, because honestly, they don't question it either. It is a system that relentlessly hammers whatever shaped peg into a hole. It doesn't take into the consideration the peg or the hole, it just uses a bigger hammer if the first one doesn't work. It works with staff and students alike. The only peoper I've met who are not unthinking (yet perhaps very very intelligent) about these matters are old boys about to retire and disfunctional supply teachers.
Standards have slipped and the only way to raise them is to seemingly make everything more micromanaged, inpersonal and acronym laden.
I always laugh that teachers have to go on courses. To me, this sums up everything which is wrong with the system.
Edited by Shoot Blair on Wednesday 14th October 13:33
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