Norfolk Tories are revolting?
Discussion
CMD's Torie party is beginning to resemble New Labour.
EDP24 said:
The SW Norfolk Tories have been threatened with having a parliamentary candidate imposed on them if they deselect Elizabeth Truss and then carry on defying David Cameron.
But the warning seems to have stiffened the resolve of the rebels. And further protests against the process that led to Ms Truss's selection, and interference by the party's national leadership, were led yesterday by Sir Jeremy Bagge, a former high sheriff of Norfolk.
"I feel totally betrayed by Conservative Central Office," he said. And he expressed outrage that the local association had been told that its candidate selection could be taken completely out of its hands if it throws out Ms Truss and then refuses to choose a candidate wanted by Mr Cameron.
"If they suspend the association, we can dissociate from the Conservative Party and choose an independent," he said.
"We will not be dictated to."
Sir Jeremy is a member of the association's executive, which was warned at a meeting on Tuesday that if Ms Truss were deselected, the local party would be made to choose from a shortlist of three candidates selected by Conservative HQ, and that it was probable all of them would be women.
If they then refused to select one of these, a candidate would be forced on them, they were also told.
The warning came from Sir Graham Bright, who retired on Saturday as the chairman of the eastern region Conservatives. And his message was delivered to the executive after he had spoken to Mr Cameron earlier that day.
Despite Sir Graham's words, the executive voted by 19-14 to refer Ms Truss's candidature back to a special general meeting to be held on November 16. The executive meeting had been speedily convened after the association had been rocked by a media disclosure, only a few hours after choosing her, that Ms Truss had had an affair with the Conservative MP Mark Field.
The warning delivered by Sir Graham infuriated Sir Jeremy, who voted for Ms Truss at the selection meeting on October 24, but now feels "the kindest thing would be to allow her to move on" and seek selection in another seat.
Breckland councillor Robert Childerhouse has also spoken out against the Conservative national leadership's involvement in the candidate selection process.
"There is a lot of unhappiness. We feel like we're being dictated to because Mr Cameron wants her [Ms Truss] in his future government. It's not the fact that she's been naughty, but that she didn't declare something that could be embarrassing," he said.
Mr Childerhouse added that many people wanted a local candidate "who can find his or her way around the constituency without a sat nav", and that it would now be hard for him to "sell" Ms Truss to voters in his ward.
With anger in the ranks apparently still deepening, some members expressed concern yesterday that Ms Truss had been in the constituency in recent days meeting members of the association. "How will she know who the members are?" asked a local Tory officer. "If she is provided with a membership list, a criminal offence will be committed under data protection law."
A spokesman for Mr Cameron refused yesterday to confirm or deny that he was contemplating taking the steps Sir Graham had warned of. "I cannot confirm that," he said. "We continue to think that Elizabeth Truss is an excellent candidate and very much hope that the association will confirm the selection. We have not reached any further conclusions about any action that needs to be taken."
Close advisers of Mr Cameron are becoming increasingly concerned that the tussle over Ms Truss could spiral out of control, and that the revolt in SW Norfolk could spread to other constituency associations which feel they are being bullied by the party's HQ and which strongly dislike the idea of having women-only shortlists imposed on them.
After being angered by being described as "Neanderthals", the association rebels reacted much more positively yesterday to being dubbed "The Turnip Taliban".
There was talk among them of printing T-shirts bearing that name. Their war cry, the EDP was told, is: "ET go home."
But the warning seems to have stiffened the resolve of the rebels. And further protests against the process that led to Ms Truss's selection, and interference by the party's national leadership, were led yesterday by Sir Jeremy Bagge, a former high sheriff of Norfolk.
"I feel totally betrayed by Conservative Central Office," he said. And he expressed outrage that the local association had been told that its candidate selection could be taken completely out of its hands if it throws out Ms Truss and then refuses to choose a candidate wanted by Mr Cameron.
"If they suspend the association, we can dissociate from the Conservative Party and choose an independent," he said.
"We will not be dictated to."
Sir Jeremy is a member of the association's executive, which was warned at a meeting on Tuesday that if Ms Truss were deselected, the local party would be made to choose from a shortlist of three candidates selected by Conservative HQ, and that it was probable all of them would be women.
If they then refused to select one of these, a candidate would be forced on them, they were also told.
The warning came from Sir Graham Bright, who retired on Saturday as the chairman of the eastern region Conservatives. And his message was delivered to the executive after he had spoken to Mr Cameron earlier that day.
Despite Sir Graham's words, the executive voted by 19-14 to refer Ms Truss's candidature back to a special general meeting to be held on November 16. The executive meeting had been speedily convened after the association had been rocked by a media disclosure, only a few hours after choosing her, that Ms Truss had had an affair with the Conservative MP Mark Field.
The warning delivered by Sir Graham infuriated Sir Jeremy, who voted for Ms Truss at the selection meeting on October 24, but now feels "the kindest thing would be to allow her to move on" and seek selection in another seat.
Breckland councillor Robert Childerhouse has also spoken out against the Conservative national leadership's involvement in the candidate selection process.
"There is a lot of unhappiness. We feel like we're being dictated to because Mr Cameron wants her [Ms Truss] in his future government. It's not the fact that she's been naughty, but that she didn't declare something that could be embarrassing," he said.
Mr Childerhouse added that many people wanted a local candidate "who can find his or her way around the constituency without a sat nav", and that it would now be hard for him to "sell" Ms Truss to voters in his ward.
With anger in the ranks apparently still deepening, some members expressed concern yesterday that Ms Truss had been in the constituency in recent days meeting members of the association. "How will she know who the members are?" asked a local Tory officer. "If she is provided with a membership list, a criminal offence will be committed under data protection law."
A spokesman for Mr Cameron refused yesterday to confirm or deny that he was contemplating taking the steps Sir Graham had warned of. "I cannot confirm that," he said. "We continue to think that Elizabeth Truss is an excellent candidate and very much hope that the association will confirm the selection. We have not reached any further conclusions about any action that needs to be taken."
Close advisers of Mr Cameron are becoming increasingly concerned that the tussle over Ms Truss could spiral out of control, and that the revolt in SW Norfolk could spread to other constituency associations which feel they are being bullied by the party's HQ and which strongly dislike the idea of having women-only shortlists imposed on them.
After being angered by being described as "Neanderthals", the association rebels reacted much more positively yesterday to being dubbed "The Turnip Taliban".
There was talk among them of printing T-shirts bearing that name. Their war cry, the EDP was told, is: "ET go home."
"Mr Childerhouse added that many people wanted a local candidate "who can find his or her way around the constituency without a sat nav", and that it would now be hard for him to "sell" Ms Truss to voters in his ward."
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except that isn't what happened in this case. The shortlist was drawn up by the local party and included at least one other local candidate, who didn't win the nomination. This situation has only come up because they have suddenly discovered that this woman had an affair several years ago, and they hadn't known about it, despite it being reported in the press at the time.tank slapper said:
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except that isn't what happened in this case. The shortlist was drawn up by the local party and included at least one other local candidate, who didn't win the nomination. This situation has only come up because they have suddenly discovered that this woman had an affair several years ago, and they hadn't known about it, despite it being reported in the press at the time."Mr Childerhouse added that many people wanted a local candidate "who can find his or her way around the constituency without a sat nav", and that it would now be hard for him to "sell" Ms Truss to voters in his ward."
Isn't that called Living Off Immoral Earnings"?
Isn't that called Living Off Immoral Earnings"?
Edited by HOGEPH on Monday 2nd November 20:48
Guam said:
Don said:
tank slapper said:
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except that isn't what happened in this case. The shortlist was drawn up by the local party and included at least one other local candidate, who didn't win the nomination. This situation has only come up because they have suddenly discovered that this woman had an affair several years ago, and they hadn't known about it, despite it being reported in the press at the time.
tank slapper said:
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except that isn't what happened in this case. The shortlist was drawn up by the local party and included at least one other local candidate, who didn't win the nomination. This situation has only come up because they have suddenly discovered that this woman had an affair several years ago, and they hadn't known about it, despite it being reported in the press at the time.Halb said:
tank slapper said:
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except that isn't what happened in this case. The shortlist was drawn up by the local party and included at least one other local candidate, who didn't win the nomination. This situation has only come up because they have suddenly discovered that this woman had an affair several years ago, and they hadn't known about it, despite it being reported in the press at the time.
And if Party HQ want to present a couple of candidates for the local association's consideration don't see anything wrong with that - just so long as truly local candidates are also allowed to stand for selection and it's a fair vote.
Shortlists: No.
Don said:
And if Party HQ want to present a couple of candidates for the local association's consideration don't see anything wrong with that - just so long as truly local candidates are also allowed to stand for selection and it's a fair vote.
Shortlists: No.
GreenV8S said:
Fair vote by whom? As I understand it, it's not just local party members who are allowed to vote - it'a anyone who lives in the constituency. Which means the whole thing can easily be hijacked to impose just about any candidate on the party, even without the support of the local party members. It's hard to see how anyone can put the labour party back into power for another term, but the tories are having a damned good try at it.
You misunderstand. This wasn't an open primary. She was voted for by the members of the local party, who have now changed their mind, because they couldn't be bothered to do the most cursory research about who the nominees were.The whole idea of open primaries is that local people get a say in who is nominated to stand at the election. The fact that the party decides who goes on to that shortlist means that they are highly unlikely to put anyone on it who they wouldn't be happy to have as an MP. They are a fundamentally good idea, because it makes MPs doubly accountable to their consituents - firstly enough of them have got to vote for them to stand, and secondly they have to win the election. It makes putting a parachuted in candidate in place very hard if the local people don't want them.
tank slapper said:
The fact that the party decides who goes on to that shortlist means that they are highly unlikely to put anyone on it who they wouldn't be happy to have as an MP. They are a fundamentally good idea, because it makes MPs doubly accountable to their consituents - firstly enough of them have got to vote for them to stand, and secondly they have to win the election. It makes putting a parachuted in candidate in place very hard if the local people don't want them.
I disagree. It means that anyone who qualifies to be a candidate can get themselves voted in by busing in a few hundred supporters to stuff the ballot boxes. Nothing to do with being popular within the party or outside it. On the contrary, it seems likely to do a lot of damage to the party, if candidates who were active and well supported within the party don't get elected.GreenV8S said:
I disagree. It means that anyone who qualifies to be a candidate can get themselves voted in by busing in a few hundred supporters to stuff the ballot boxes. Nothing to do with being popular within the party or outside it. On the contrary, it seems likely to do a lot of damage to the party, if candidates who were active and well supported within the party don't get elected.
And who is it who makes that decision? - the local party. As I said, the only people who would end up on the shortlist, are those who they will be happy to have as a candidate for election.A properly done open primary (which is a ballot of the whole constituency electorate), rather than an open caucasus (which is an open meeting which people have to attend to vote), adds legitimacy to any candidate by way of the fact that they have already been endorsed by many people in the constituency. It also means that safe seats are impossible - if the local electorate are fed up with their particular MP, but not the party, then they can just select another person to represent them. This is a far more democratic way of doing things than at present.
This page discusses it in a little more detail, and is worth a read.
Don said:
Halb said:
tank slapper said:
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except that isn't what happened in this case. The shortlist was drawn up by the local party and included at least one other local candidate, who didn't win the nomination. This situation has only come up because they have suddenly discovered that this woman had an affair several years ago, and they hadn't known about it, despite it being reported in the press at the time.And if Party HQ want to present a couple of candidates for the local association's consideration don't see anything wrong with that - just so long as truly local candidates are also allowed to stand for selection and it's a fair vote.
Shortlists: No.
anonymousposter said:
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except we then bemoan the lack of talent that gets into ministerial positions. Either we have talented individuals as MPs or we have local bumpkins - which is it?eccles said:
anonymousposter said:
Halb said:
A commendable position. I hope more local parties get fed up with diktat HQ imposing 'foreigners' onto locals
Except we then bemoan the lack of talent that gets into ministerial positions. Either we have talented individuals as MPs or we have local bumpkins - which is it?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/8363403...
She was selected, but the local Tory leader still ain't happy with HQ
She was selected, but the local Tory leader still ain't happy with HQ
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