Joining the army

[Tiggsy]

What are army sign up rates like at the moment? Given that any kid joining today is 99% going to end up shooting at Afghans (who will be shooting at him)....are numbers up or down?

Just wondered if the anti "being in there" feeling that exists has filtered down to the kids signing up? or does the "support our troops even though we dont support what they are being asked to do" attitude allow them to still feel positive about a future in the forces?

[AshVX220]

From talking to some people I work with who are in HM Forces, recuitment was right down, and retaining the existing personnel was a struggle.

However, since the recession, it has started to pick up again slightly.

[ninja-lewis]

"Ministry of Defence figures show a 25% rise in the number of recruits this year, with more signing up than at any time since 2005."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/27/british-a...

The recession is probably one of the main factors. In the past our uni Careers Fair was usually rammed with financial and law companies but this year the biggest presence was Defence - not just the three separate service but also the MOD Civil service, various agencies of the MOD, QinetiQ, BAE Systems, Babcock, VT Group, etc.

[Asterix]

I'd read somewhere, can't provide a link as it was a few weeks ago, that intake was on the rise.

Whether that is down to kids who really want to be in or because there is higher unemployment in most places since the crash, I can't say.

[V88Dicky]

Asterix said:

I'd read somewhere, can't provide a link as it was a few weeks ago, that intake was on the rise.

Whether that is down to kids who really want to be in or because there is higher unemployment in most places since the crash, I can't say.

I can tell you unequivocally that armed forces recruitment has gone through the roof this year. The Army had filled up most of their spaces for this year by the summer, as had the RAF. The Navy, which includes the Royal Marines, although they keep recruiting all year, the waiting list for jobs have seen a steady lengthening all year. Several jobs now have a 2 year waiting list, with most jobs at least a year.

[Tiggsy]

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

[OnTheOverrun]

Recruitment always rises when there's some fighting to be done. It may sound odd to civvies but people join the forces to fight, not to polish boots. You don't get bragging rights when you return from an arduous tour at Tidworth!

[V88Dicky]

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Recession is probably to blame for most of the large rise in recruitment, but there is a sizeable minority who quote 'fighting the Taliban/ Al Qaeda' as a reason. Fair play to them I say.

[Tiggsy]

V88Dicky said:

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Recession is probably to blame for most of the large rise in recruitment, but there is a sizeable minority who quote 'fighting the Taliban/ Al Qaeda' as a reason. Fair play to them I say.

Then why the "bring our boys home" attitude towards the war if the people doing the fighting are out there to do just that...and in fact, join more readily when the opportunity to do it presents itself?

What does the average solider that at 18 wanted a gun and to shoot people think when he hears "civvies" saying its all very grim and they should come home asap?

[V88Dicky]

Tiggsy said:

V88Dicky said:

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Recession is probably to blame for most of the large rise in recruitment, but there is a sizeable minority who quote 'fighting the Taliban/ Al Qaeda' as a reason. Fair play to them I say.

Then why the "bring our boys home" attitude towards the war if the people doing the fighting are out there to do just that...and in fact, join more readily when the opportunity to do it presents itself?

What does the average solider that at 18 wanted a gun and to shoot people think when he hears "civvies" saying its all very grim and they should come home asap?

Because, as usual its the chattering classes/ noisy minority who say things like that. Doesn't help when institutions like the BBC report what the minority think and do.

[anonymous-user]

Tiggsy said:

What does the average solider that at 18 wanted a gun and to shoot people think when he hears "civvies" saying its all very grim and they should come home asap?

Perhaps the reality of being there doesn't meet with their expectation before they signed up.

Didn't the Ministry of Defence estimate there have been 10,000 Awol incidents since the invasion of Iraq in 2003?

Edited by el stovey on Thursday 5th November 14:30

[okgo]

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Why join the army if you aren't going to see action?

At least its pretty much certain you will now.

[Tony*T3]

Tiggsy said:

V88Dicky said:

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Recession is probably to blame for most of the large rise in recruitment, but there is a sizeable minority who quote 'fighting the Taliban/ Al Qaeda' as a reason. Fair play to them I say.

Then why the "bring our boys home" attitude towards the war if the people doing the fighting are out there to do just that...and in fact, join more readily when the opportunity to do it presents itself?

What does the average solider that at 18 wanted a gun and to shoot people think when he hears "civvies" saying its all very grim and they should come home asap?

Because their mostly young and have the attitude 'it wont happen to me'.

[Tiggsy]

okgo said:

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Why join the army if you aren't going to see action?

To get the pay without getting blown up? There must be a vast number of kids going in because they have no other (perceived) career prospects...I cant believe they are all going in thinking "i hope i get to be shooting people soon" - or maybe they are? odd if that's the case though. (although that may be my "civvie" attitude applying itself to an issue where nothing civvie applies)

[okgo]

Tiggsy said:

okgo said:

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Why join the army if you aren't going to see action?

To get the pay without getting blown up? There must be a vast number of kids going in because they have no other (perceived) career prospects...I cant believe they are all going in thinking "i hope i get to be shooting people soon" - or maybe they are? odd if that's the case though. (although that may be my "civvie" attitude applying itself to an issue where nothing civvie applies)

The pay is ste though.. So can't be that either.. (unless you are going in as an officer of course).

I live with a guy (28) who is going through the marines proccess at the minute, I don't think he knows why, and he doesn't seem to be able to give me any solid reasons.. More fool him if he is going to that hell on earth without having the right reasons.

It's one thing watching 'future weapons' and dreaming about putting the latest .50 cal bullet in some taliban mofo, but it ain't all like that I fear..

[Tiggsy]

okgo said:

More fool him if he is going to that hell on earth without having the right reasons...

What would they be? As a father of 3 sons i cant think of any reason they could present me with that would make me think "not ideal, but he has a point"

[okgo]

Tiggsy said:

okgo said:

More fool him if he is going to that hell on earth without having the right reasons...

What would they be? As a father of 3 sons i cant think of any reason they could present me with that would make me think "not ideal, but he has a point"

fk knows, but he shouldn't have to answer to anyone about his reasons, just as long as he is sure in his head. I don't think he is.. just going along with it as he kinda has to now he quit his proper job for a part time phone jockey job to allow for training.

[whitemac]

okgo said:

Tiggsy said:

okgo said:

Tiggsy said:

why? Are kids wanting to fight? Are kids wanting to get out of where they are? (council estate/no job)

Why join the army if you aren't going to see action?

To get the pay without getting blown up? There must be a vast number of kids going in because they have no other (perceived) career prospects...I cant believe they are all going in thinking "i hope i get to be shooting people soon" - or maybe they are? odd if that's the case though. (although that may be my "civvie" attitude applying itself to an issue where nothing civvie applies)

The pay is ste though.. So can't be that either.. (unless you are going in as an officer of course).

I live with a guy (28) who is going through the marines proccess at the minute, I don't think he knows why, and he doesn't seem to be able to give me any solid reasons.. More fool him if he is going to that hell on earth without having the right reasons.

It's one thing watching 'future weapons' and dreaming about putting the latest .50 cal bullet in some taliban mofo, but it ain't all like that I fear..

In some areas of the UK, a starting wage of £16600 after training (not including additional pay) is considered a decent wage, especially for young lads and lasses. And don't forget, a lot of lads join the Marines because of the kudos that goes with the green beret and the proud history of the corp. Same applys to the Paras etc.

[Tiggsy]

okgo said:

fk knows, but he shouldn't have to answer to anyone about his reasons.

No...but you'd think if he was confident in them he'd be happy to share them.

The most obvious seem to be: broke, want a gun, want to serve. Given today's youngsters at the economic level that the army attracts (along with the general ill feeling towards the war anyway) i wonder if that last category is rather slim?

[Tiggsy]

whitemac said:

And don't forget, a lot of lads join the Marines because of the kudos that goes with the green beret and the proud history of the corp. Same applys to the Paras etc.

Thats nice to hear. I dont have any family experience of being in the forces really so it's a pretty alien idea...but i'd have some respect for those who adopted it.